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  1. #1

    lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    I know there has been some concern among owners of 2 stroke detroits as to what will be available to use as lube oil with the industry rating of CF-2 being retired, so I thought I'd share what I found today. Having been caught up in the scare also I bought 30 gallons of delo 100 awhile back but now that its gone I went to N. E.Detroit Diesel/MTU and asked for oil for two cycles. They gave me 40W WITHOUT any classification symbols/starburst (whatever the symbol is called where the classification rating is found), however, instead of the symbol, it states all over the packaging and container labeling 'heavy-duty diesel engine oil for detroit diesel 2-cycle' also on packaging and label, without any symbol, it simply states 'api service CF'. Again, in product literature from MTU titled 'Detroit Diesel 2-cycle, Full support every step of the way', it states 'Powerguard sae 40 2-cycle engine oil. Features a low ash formula that adheres to the api CF-2 level of approval for on- and off-highway uses' oddly enough, on the 5 gallon pail it states 'api service CF/CF-2' but,on the single gallon it only states 'api service CF'. They are also still made by Mobil/Delvac. The cost was $17. Per gallon. So it looks like the proven oils are still available, just without the service classification we've come to look for. Just my $.02. Happy Fourth of July!
    Russell

  2. #2

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    Go to Napa, its $56 a pail. Just did mine a couple weeks ago.


  3. #3

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    I'm using exxon xd3-40.
    happy fourth

    Art
    Trouble
    43DCFB DC-306
    AYC NY

  4. #4

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    Same here with the Exxon

  5. #5

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    A while back, Detroit came out with a buletin saying NOT to use 15W40, to use straight 40 weight. Before that, I had switched to Synergen 15W40 and found it kept my engines far cleaner than traditional oils. Because of this, I have stayed with the 15W40 Synergen oil, and after in excess of 10,000 miles of travel (I have no idea how many hours/miles the engines already had on them) my last engine check showed I still had hone marks in the cylinder walls. You might say I am a believer, and won't change from what works!

    Note: I would switch to straight 40 weight, except Synergen doesn't sell it!
    I know I don't need the multigrade here in FL.

  6. #6

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    I don't mean to muddy up the oil issue but there is a lot of oiling information now that pretty much contradicts what we used to think about oil and how it works in an engine, especially when applied to synthetics.

    15W40 oil is better for engine startup than 40Wt oil and it provides the same hot viscosity. 0W40 is even better. The thinner the oil on startup, the quicker it gets where it needs to and the better the engine protection.

    At operating temp, 40 wt, 15W40 wt, 0w40 wt are all the same.

    THe reason it is more applicable to syns is that unlike multiweight dino oil, syn's base stock is the heavy side. IOW, a 15W40 dino oil is 15 weight oil with additives to increase viscosity to 40 when hot; syns are the opposite. A 15W40 syn's base stock is 40 with additives to make it 15 when cold. So that as an additive package wears out, the dino oil eventually becomes 15 all the time while the syn becomes 40 all the time.

    That being said, I don't know how the DD oiling requirements fit into this regarding other issues so I'm not suggesting anyone should change to something other than DDs most recent recommendations - around 2000 was the last service item I have seen. Perhaps more research would make it clear but I have no real interest in doing it and, with the amount of use my DDs actually get, I can't see any value in it, even if changing oils would double engine life!
    Mike P
    San Miguel de Allende, Mexico; Kent Island MD; San Antonio TX
    1980 53MY "Brigadoon"

  7. #7

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    Mike, you raise some interesting points.
    I guess I've just taken it as a matter of fact that DD says "40 wt only" without ever questioning why.
    ( I have 6-71 TIB's)
    Do you, or anyone else know "why" DD recommends straight 40 wt?
    Is there something about multi-grades that they feel would be detrimental to the engine?
    Are multi-grades set up differently than straight weights as far as detergents, or some other constituent?
    The point you raise about starting against a 10 wt or 15 wt instead of against a thick 40 wt has got me wondering...
    Searching...
    Daytona Beach, FL

  8. #8

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    In the engine manual they go into some more detail, but here is an excerpt from one of their docs, where they seem pretty emphatic about it, in the document the last two sentences are in bold face:

    At ambient temperatures below freezing (32° F or 0° C), sufficient starter cranking speed may not be achieved to start the engine with SAE 40 grade oils. Where starting aids are not available or at very cold temperatures (0° F to -25° F or -18° C to -32° C) even if starting aids are available, the use of multigrade SAE 15W-40 or monograde lubricant SAE 30 will improve startability. These lubricants must possess a High Temperature
    – High Shear Rate Viscosity (measured by ASTM D 4741 or equivalent) of 3.70 cP minimum. These oils must be replaced with monograde SAE 40 lubricants as soon as ambient conditions permit. Do not use multigrade or SAE 30 grade lubricants in two-stroke cycle marine engines or Series 149 under any circumstances.
    George
    Former Owner: "Incentive" 1981 56MY
    2007-2014

  9. #9

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    The DD manual of around the mid 80s' recommended a multiweight - I believe it was 15w40 though I can't recall and I don't have any of my DD references here (I'm back in Mexico). But later they went back to recommending straight 40 Wt.

    I don't know what the actual reasoning was; there was no mention of it from any info I had; they just went from straight 40 to a multiweight and back to straight 40. It could have been that they had actual mechanical issues or that it was an increased leakage issue; I don't know. Maybe with the relatively large clearances in DDs, the 15W was too thin when cold and couldn't generate sufficient pressure at idle to keep the low pressure lights/alarms from activating. But I'm just speculating. Note that the low pressure in itself is not an issue if there is sufficient oil volume.

    Many modern car engines use 5Wx or 0Wx oils. For example Ferrari issued a tech bulletin back in the early '90s recommending 5W40 synthetic for all Ferrari V8 engines, regardless of year made. There is a common view that one reason modern engines use 0W or 5W oils is because they have tighter clearances. That is partially true but the fact that Ferrari went to 5W40 for all their v8's, back to their first ones in the mid 70's, indicates that they determined that the 5W provided improved start-up wear characteristics. Heck, lots of race motors nowadays use 0W30.

    Again, I'm not suggesting that we switch to 0W40 for our 8V71Tis - it's not 2-stroke diesel spec anyway!
    Mike P
    San Miguel de Allende, Mexico; Kent Island MD; San Antonio TX
    1980 53MY "Brigadoon"

  10. #10

    Re: lube oil for two cycle D.D.

    I was led to believe that DD had to have the oils originally developed for their 2 strokes and that it had to meet what was called a "delo" grade standard, I have no idea why it is only 40 W that is normally acceptable , one reason may be the ability to really work the engines hard over long periods of time, modern technology in oil production may have negated the need for the strict use of 40 W but I take no chances with my 4 DD's, plus I use the 40 w everywhere, gens and tran's.
    Our local DD dealer will only use 40 w if they service any 2 stroke DD.

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