The price to fix an Ideal windlass

[q240z]

My Ideal windlass hasn't worked right since I bought the boat. It would stutter along for five seconds or so, then POP goes the breaker.

I finally dug into the cabinetry and pulled the motor, expecting a flood of 90w to come out of the gearbox. SURPRISE!!! About 100cc came out, which is about 1/10th what should have been there. Curiously, the capstan was not happy about rotating even with the motor attached. I figured corrosion was just binding up the upper bushing, since the lower one was still immersed in oil.

So, I doused a bunch of PB Blaster and my favorite corrosion buster--ATF mixed with acetone--into the top of the capstan, then used a gear puller to remove it. After cleaning all the crap off of the shaft, I worked a bunch of my ATF mix and PB Blaster into the gap between the shaft and bushing and--lo and behold! Now she spins like a top.

I put the whole thing back together minus oil and gave it a test. The capstan stuttered around for about five seconds and POP went the breaker.

Soooo, I pulled the motor and used jumper cables to bench test it. Yup, bad motor. So I took it apart and the varnish on the armature looked cooked. Everything else seems to check out. Ideal says they don't stock parts for these old units anymore, but they have replacement motors for $650.

When I checked around to have it rewound I found a few places around the country that still do this kind of work, but the difference in price was startling.

One highly recommended place came back with $950! For a DC armature the size of a standard starter motor unit! I ended up shipping it off today to a place in Wisconsin--Whites Armature, Inc--who says they can do it for around $120 + shipping.

What in the world could account for that kind of price difference outside of "we don't need the work so we'll price it to the moon"?

[captddis]

wait to see the final price at Whites. I just bought a 1.5 HP motor for my boat lift. 860.00 for the motor!! The old motor is fine but it needed a new brake and it was 484.00 for the brake and a 6 week wait. Nothing is cheap any more.

[GJH]

I'm kinda surprised Ideal didn't have a place for you to send it for rebuild. Seems out of character for them.

[q240z]

I found that Ideal's customer service runs hot and cold. Some of their guys are real helpful, but the fella I got stuck with more often than not was very grudgingly helpful.

But as far as parts for the motor on a 1966 Model A, they don't have them and haven't for a while. Which is why their advice was initially to trade it in on a brand new motor, which fits the gearbox just fine and costs $650 or so.

I'll let you know what the final bill is at White.

[MikeP]

Hmm, that is surprising. Up until a year ago, last time I talked to them, Ideal could and did rebuild any windlass they had ever made. Of course, they don't make elec motors so I guess they are stuck in that regard with using what they can get.

I think I would also have tried the motor rebuild method at the $120 price. It's not rocket science at all but, like mechanics who can work on carburetors, motor re-winding shops are less common than they used to be...

[q240z]

Ideal could and did rebuild any windlass they had ever made. Of course, they don't make elec motors so I guess they are stuck in that regard with using what they can get.

Exactly. They can restore a Model A to like-new condition, but it will come with the modern motor.

One thing I found interesting is that the armature was stamped "rebuilt 1966," which I take to mean it was rewound then. The Ideal folks tell me the serial number on mine indicates that it was "new" in 1966. When I removed the motor, I broke the original paint on the unit--I suspect the motor was original to the unit and had never been removed. Kinda makes me wonder exactly how many times this armature's been around the block.

[q240z]

The nice lady at White called yesterday. I had to smile at the Wisconsin accent.

Anyway, now that they've seen the armature they revised their estimate to $167 + $11.40 for shipping.

Seems fair to me.

[q240z]

wait to see the final price at Whites.

The armature arrived yesterday. Final price was $174 w/shipping. I reassembled the motor, cut my own gasket, installed the motor, and put gear oil in the windlass...VROOOM!! Works like a top!

Lesson learned: remove the capstan and lubricate the shaft at the beginning of each cruising season, and keep an eye on that oil level.

Here's the befores and afters of the armature:

[bigbill]

i think i have the same problem with the upper bushing being dry. i am soaking it with pbblaster every day to see if it will free up, before i pull the unit out of the boat. i like the idea of oiling the upper bushing each season. keeping my fingers crossed that the shaft will free up. bigbill

[q240z]

Have you pulled the motor already?

With the capstan still attached and the motor out, could you move it up and down (with effort) about 1/2" above the deck?