Who has NEW self-contained AC onboard?

[Angela]

I am now contemplating installing new (again) air conditioning in the lower to replace the relatively new CrapAir system I have. I have the modulating system where one condensing unit runs four evaporator coil units, individually. Our options are for a chilled water system which is very expensive and comes with some installation challenges, or four self-contained units which we can install ourselves.
My questions is this - for those of you who have the latest and greatest technology in AC installed on your boats in self-contained units, how bad is the noise? Years ago, these things were obnoxiously loud, but these days, manufacturers are boasting about how the new technology in compressors yield a quiet operation. That’s all relative, I know, which is why I’m asking for opinions on the noise for NEW units, not the old stuff which I already know is loud.

The four rooms I need to cool are the staterooms, and the self-contained units would be going into those spaces which is why the noise is a consideration. I realize they all come with some noise, but how much noiser is a "new" elf contained unit over that of my existing evaporator/blower units that are in each room already? I have enough seacocks in the areas to run another seawater pump, and I can run more than one self-contained unit on one pump.

Ideally, I want to find someone with a new unit in their boat and go listen to it.

I can tell you that I will never, ever, ever, never, never, ever buy another CruisAir product. Their product is crap these days and so is their warranty and service.

[captbuddy]

Angela,
I installed a 18,500 BTU Flagship Marine selfcontained unit in my boss's 40' ElDordo. I put it behind the Frig and under the sink in the salon area. He doesn't have a sealed door. Just a canvas zip up door. This unit is not load at all. It came with five air ducks. Was able to put 3 in salon, one in head and one in V-Berth. Works great. Unit was throwing a high pressure switch and cutting off the compressor but I think I solved that problem with a check valve. So far so good. Got another fishing trip on Sept 12th. Will let you know if the high pressure kicks off again on that trip.
captbuddy

[GJH]

We have a Mermaid unit on the aft deck that is pretty loud; so much so we almost never use it. Keep in mind you would have additional raw water pumps adding to the noise in some fashion.

I am no AC expert, so I am having difficulty envisioning your set up. Every Hatt of our vintage that I have seen has individual condenser/compressor units in either the engine room or in my case the generator room. They then feed individual air handlers in each room, much like a domestic residential heat pump system on land, except one-per-serviced-room. Ours are CruiseAirs, four fairly new, one looks original. One Oberdorfer 104M feeds raw water to them all. They need regular maintenance just like a land based system. Ours get used a lot, during the summer a few are pretty much 24/7 and as long as we get them serviced once or twice a year they do their job pretty well.

Before you go out and spend a lot of money, I could refer you to the guy we use down there; honest, works fast, 70 bucks an hour.

[Pete]

Installed a self contained Mermaid 16.5K BTU reverse cycle unit in my engine room about 18 months ago. It is mounted in an aluminum frame, hung from the overhead in the engine room. The unit is mounted on the supplied sound pad with vibration isolation mounts used in the overhead mounting hardware. Immediately above the unit is 1.5" vinyl faced fiberglass/lead sound reduction material. It is an 230 volt unit. The only negative I saw in the unit is that the stainless base for the unit is a lighter gauge than I would prefer. But, at least it is stainless.

As for noise, I would not consider mounting this unit in a stateroom where I expected someone to sleep. I do like it quiet, with only the fan white noise, in the staterooms. It sounds no louder than other units I checked out on other boats when I was trying to decide on a brand. In the engine room this unit is mounted in the stbd aft corner. My rack of 4 Cruisair compressors is located in the forward port corner. Comparing the sound to these units, it is definitely quieter, than any one of them. The sound is also not as harsh as the Cruisair piston compressors. BTW, 3 of 4 of the Copeland Cruisair compressors are originals. More than a few miles on these, so the noise level could be louder than when new.

Bottom line, I would definitely stay with remote compressors, just my opinion.

Pete

[krush]

What's wrong this time?

Maybe you can come up with certain operating procedures that will make it work.

[Boatsb]

I don't own one but have fixed a couple and the ocean breeze seem to be nice units. I worked on a 30K + btu unit servicing a 49 foot MY well. I would consider one for my boat if I needed to change one out.

[Angela]

George, I have one of those freak CruisAir systems that is original Hatteras design, but I understand it was only used on this model/series of Hatts which would be why you've probably never seen it or heard of it. It worked better on paper than in the field, I'm told by many. There is no good way to fix this system other than to get rid of it. It was WAY TOO MANY points of potential failure with all the solenoid valves, coils, relays, pipe connections/fittings, etc. I've had a few techs walk into my engine room to deal with this monster and say, "What the hell is that?"

If we stay with a remote system, then, we would be wise to go to a chiller system rather than staying with direct expansion. The downside of keeping it as a "remote condensing unit system", whether it's chilled water or direct expansion, is that when something goes wrong with that condensing unit or a failure occurs at any one of the numerous fittings/connections (more so common and problematic in direct expansion than in a chiller system), it wipes out all air conditioning to all staterooms, and this is unacceptable when it happens. Yeah, I can fix that by installing TWO condensing units (one for a back up), but that comes at the expense of many dollars and precious engine room space.

I've been fighting with this system way too long and I've been without AC in all of my staterooms since the end of June...IN MIAMI! My 20-MONTH old CruisAir condensing unit is spewing R-22. CruisAir has been less than helpful, but they will be happy to sell me yet another condensing unit - special order, of course, because this is not a unit that they routinely manufacture - why in the world would I buy another one if they don't even last 2 years?????? Same story from a dockmate of mine with his CruisAir.

If I can confirm that today's self-contained units are as advertised and quiet enough to install inside cabinetry in the staterooms (as they advertise), then this may be the best way to replace this. And when there is a failure, they are cheap enough that I can simply drop another in if I can't do a quick fix on the unit, if I have to (i.e. during a charter).

The evaporator units in the staterooms now are not exactly quiet. When it was working, I would run a fan all night just to keep the noise level constant because the noise of the evap. coming on/off wakes me up - yes, this with the remote set up. On the other hand, I've had some guests comment that they liked the noise level of the evaporator units because they could drown out the other person's snoring!!

I realize there is some level of noise associated with any AC system and no system is going to give me the mere sound of air blowing like you'd find in a bedroom in a house, but I'm trying to find an acceptable threshhold.

I'm not opposed to building lead lined sound boxes like we have on the genny, or lining the cabinetry where it would sit with the lead/foam panels, if I have to!

To replace what I've got with another system just like it is in the "well over $20,000" range. I can buy a 12,000 self-contained unit for around $1,700; smaller ones are less - I would need 4K, 5K, 8K and 12K units to replace my system.

From what Pete and George are telling me about their Mermaids, it sounds like Mermaid may not be the right ones for me.

[Angela]

What's wrong this time?

Maybe you can come up with certain operating procedures that will make it work.

I tried that...when it started needing a recharge every 5 days, I gave up. LOL It's empty now, and I've replaced an entire solenoid valve manifold with a new one. The only leak left is on the condensing unit, and now, the CruisAir guy doesn't even want to work on this system anymore. And frankly, I'm tired of throwing money at it. I've got over $7,000 in this system that's been unreliable since the new condensing unit was installed in December of 2007.

[SKYCHENEY]

If it were mine, I wouldn't want to try to house and plumb all of the new self-contained units. I'd stick with something that can make use of the old air handlers(or at least their cabinetry).

I like the sound of going with a chiller unit and zoning each room in. You may be able to use the old piping but I'm not sure about size. If not, at least you could follow the same runs and find fan units to fit in the old spaces.

I don't like the idea of pumping seawater up into cabinets in my boat. That should stay in the engine room. If you end up with multiple self contained units, you'd have more through hulls and more pumps and hoses. That just seems like too much. Just my .02

[whaler23]

MarvAir has chillers with split marine air handler systems that can be ducted to up to three locations, this would give you the ability to quiet down your staterooms by ducting in the air and remotely positioning the air handler(evaporator). I have three separate unit on my Chris Craft, all work, but all have noisy fans and evaporators causing the same complaints you mention. I'm considering this system and have already determined a suitable away from the staterooms mounting location and routing for ductwork with virtually no modifications to anything.

http://www.marvairmarineaircondition...-handlers.html