Why so many Nordhavn's for sale?

[Brian Degulis]

Scott, do not know what Nordy's you have been on. I have never been on one at a boat show. I have, however, been on a couple of them after a few years of use. I am not impressed at all. In fact I believe the most talented group in the Nordy company are the marketing folks, selling an image that is not backed by any facts or experiences.

As for window glass, my Hatteras windshield is safety glass, so yes it may crack easier, but it will not create an opening for water. And yes, the doors may be more water tight on a Nordy than on my boat, but current production comparisons are probably a draw. Have you looked at the doors on newer Hatteras MY's?

What I see are Nordy's with inferior stainless showing a lot of surface rust, hull that are about as fair as ferro-cement hulls, significant electrolysis on underwater fittings, and interior wood finished with semi transparent stain (similar to what you see on Marine Traders). I would like to know more details about the boat. How are the stringers constructed, how is the deck/hull joint finished, engine bed details, what is cored and with what, and on and on. It could be that I am only seeing the negatives and there are lots of positives. For now I see a boat designed to look semi commercial, with a great marketing strategy, a price to support superiority, but no evidence of what that superiority is. Again, crossing the Atlantic with the assistance of a boat load of mechanics, does not impress me. In fact, it adds to the mystery of what you are paying for.

Pete

You hit 1/4" safety glass with blue water and it will blow right thru the laminate only protects you from fragments. The doors and widows on the Nordy are obviously designed for blue water use and far superior to any Hatt I've seen current production included. You keep asking for facts and specs to prove they're better why don't you produce some facts and specs to prove they're not?

Brian

[Pete]

Brian, the 47 Nordy has 12mm tempered windshield glass. Agree, it will take a heavier hit to break this versus 1/4" laminated safety glass, but then again 12mm tempered is far from bullet proof as claimed earlier. On the door integrity, we will just have to disagree. The doors on current production Hatteras are very impressive, just more stylish than the Nordy tug boat look.

Your challenge to enumerate the negatives about the Nordy's versus requesting facts on their positive attributes is interesting. It leads me to believe the admirers of the Nordy's like the boats but are unable to specify what it is about them they like. Problem is, Nordhavn does not provide details about the stuff that can not be seen. I gave the group four negative, in my opinion, that are contained in the third paragraph of my post that you quoted. To repeat, these are: inferior stainless showing a lot of surface rust, hull that are about as fair as ferro-cement hulls, significant electrolysis on underwater fittings, and interior wood finished with semi transparent stain (similar to what you see on Marine Traders). Add to that the use of aluminum for the fuel day tank and the fuel supply reservoir. The main tanks are fiberglass, as are the water, waste, and gray water tanks. I will take all fiberglass tanks, thank you.

So there are my five items that do not compare favorably to a current/recent production Hatteras. Heavier windshield glass is one plus for Nordy. How about another four?

BTW, as part of a Hatteras factory tour last Fall with the LRC Club, each of us received a "The Hatteras Advantage" 48 page brochure. Comprehensive details of the construction of a Hatteras are in there. Pictures/drawings/cross sections of tank construction, tank installation, hardware attachment, hull design, fluid dynamic simulations, hull deck joint, stringer system, details of topside and bottom paint system, and on and on. Nordhavn does not publish this type of information as best I know. If it is out there I would like to see it. It may be impressive, but since it is not readily available I suspect it is nothing to brag about. Every Nordy owner and "want to be" that I have engaged speaks in terms of impressions, appearance, assumed capabilities, but never facts. And to a person, they all like the tug boat doors and windows. There seems to be a little ego thrown in also, similar to what you saw 15 or 20 years ago with Grand Banks. Someone earlier mentioned the Hummer phenomena of the past few years as another possible comparison. Only time will tell, or if Nordhavn decides to come clean with the real construction details. For now the marketing folks at Nordhavn are doing one hell of a job selling impressions at a premium price.

Pete

[Brian Degulis]

I and many others have specified exactly what we like about them you just don't accept it. I have not seen or heard of the "hulls that are as fair as ferro cement hulls" Nor have I seen the electrolysis problems you speak of and the interiors I've seen are far superior to hat current models included. It's also a fact that the doors are far superior and that they have a very good history of impressive blue water crossings without the "boat load of mechanics" you speak of.

What you do is take a little negative from here or there and embrace it as truth while ignoring all the positive from other sources. Using that logic I could simply search the tech section of this forum and conclude Hats are loaded with problems. In a past discussion you cited a one page ad with 1/2 a page of copy of which 3 lines talked about how the boat appeals to the in experienced. From that you concluded that Nordhaven is marketing to the novice. You completely ignored 95% of what was written that spoke of experienced buyers and instead defined they're marketing strategy on that 5% concluding that they are selling hype to the novice.

I'm tempted to dig up the specs on both boats and make more fact based comparisons. But really think it wouldn't be worth the effort because you appear so un willing to accept anything that opposes your point of view. Truthfully on a quick search I can't find much about hull thickness or structural detail on Nordy or Hat.

The other thing to consider is that we are communicating on a Hat forum with primarily Hat owners so obviously there's going to be a Hat bias. But even considering that you still have the majority of posters seeing these boats as good quality purpose built boats superior to Hats for blue water use.

Brian

[Walter P]

Some guys like blondes, some like brunettes and others will take a redhead all the time. Me.... I like them all..... Ooopps we were talking about boats. Well I pretty much feel the same way about most boats. There is no denying that Hatts and Nordys are both very high quality boats.. just different. Depends on your intended purpose and personal preferences. Flemings seem to be very well built high quality boats as well. If all of a sudden there were no more Hatteras', I'd consider one.

Walt

[Pete]

Brian, you ask me for specific negatives and I give them to you. All factual, 4 of the 5 personally seen by me and the 5th directly from Nordhavn documentation. I ask you to provide some facts and I get an emotional rant. Please take the time to get some facts. I am very objective when discussing facts. Fact-less emotion is not helpful. Facts please, facts. As for Hatteras construction details, I gave you a reference, get a copy, it is a great read.

Walter, I agree that Fleming looks like a quality boat. Just been on one but it looked well done. Would want some facts before falling in love with it, but I did not see any negatives.

Pete

[Brian Degulis]

You gave nothing but opinion on the Nordhavn Myself and the other posters also gave opinion. You want facts go find them and prove me wrong un like you I'm objective. If you prove me wrong I'll accept it. Me bringing you facts and expecting you to accept it will be like trying to water ski behind a rowboat.

Brian

[Pete]

Brian, I gave you facts, aluminum tanks from Nordhavn documentation, hide all semi transparent stain (you saw that yourself), severe pitting from electrolysis on underwater bronze fittings, excessive rust surface stained stainless, hull fairness that resembles a ferro-cement hull. Are you claiming that unless you see it it does not exist, and you are not looking. How about when the manufacturer organizes a owners trans Atlantic cruise, and send a boat load of mechanics that had lots to keep them busy. Since you likely did not personally see them on the mother Nordy, do you deny they existed.

I provide requested facts to you, and ask you to return the favor to support your point of view. What I have received so far are two emotional rants. When can I expect some facts?

Pete

[MikeP]

I don't know a thing about the specifics of this argument "fact-wise" but I spent a good bit of time on a 57 Nord that was docked at Brittania Marina in Northport, NY during the summer of '04 and I was extremely impressed.

Of course, it was an '02 (as I recall) so it's probably not fair to compare it to an '80 53MY Hatt. But the Admiral and I would have been happy to swap boats! Unfortunately, that's the only way we could "afford" the Nord!

[Brian Degulis]

Brian, I gave you facts, aluminum tanks from Nordhavn documentation, hide all semi transparent stain (you saw that yourself), severe pitting from electrolysis on underwater bronze fittings, excessive rust surface stained stainless, hull fairness that resembles a ferro-cement hull. Are you claiming that unless you see it it does not exist, and you are not looking. How about when the manufacturer organizes a owners trans Atlantic cruise, and send a boat load of mechanics that had lots to keep them busy. Since you likely did not personally see them on the mother Nordy, do you deny they existed.

I provide requested facts to you, and ask you to return the favor to support your point of view. What I have received so far are two emotional rants. When can I expect some facts?

Pete

Of all the information you provided only one item was fact "they have aluminum fuel tanks". The rest is all opinion but you seem to feel that your observations should be viewed as fact and everyone else's observations are opinion based in nothing. News flash your the only one who believes your observations are superior and must be viewed as fact. I'm not saying the things you've seen aren't there I'm saying that based on my observations and many others who have posted the things you mention are not representative of the boat. No I'm not denying that a crossing was made with the Nordys reps present. Are you denying that many other blue water crossings were made by lone boats. I just read about another today in a publication. You've given no more facts than anyone else yet you keep telling others they must provide you with document ion to support they're opinion. One more time you want facts go find them yourself. Your own words graphically illustrate your obvious bias and any effort by anyone to enlighten you is simply a waste of time. My work is done here I'm moving on!!!

Brian

[Pete]

Brian, less emotion this time, just a series of excuses for why you do not offer any factual information to support your admiration of the quality of the Nordhavn vessels. I have seen the hide all semi transparent interior finish, you have seen it, everyone that boards a Nordhavn sees it, but to you that is not a fact. I have seen the severely pitted underwater bronze fittings, have personal knowledge of one vessel that was serviced by a professional and found to have electrical leakage to the bonding system, and this you reject as a fact. As for the fairness of the hulls, go find a Nordhavn on the hard and sight the hull sides. Tell us what you see. Find a 4 or 5 year old Nordhavn and check out the stainless, especially forward where the sea spray is most intense and tell us what you see. You will see what I am reporting, then it is just a question of your willingness to confirm my FACTS. And while the mother Nordhavn may have had some "reps" on board during the company sponsored Atlantic crossing, they also had a boat load of mechanics, the guys that repair things and they were busy.

I agree Nordhavn is one of the better quality boats on the market. But, when compared to current production Hatteras boats, using QUALITY of the product as the criteria, Hatteras wins easily. And yes Hatteras current products are not designed to cross the ocean, and Nordhavn boats do not cruise at 30+ knots with ease. Different boats, different purposes. But you can compare the quality of each product, and when you do Hatteras wins. That is a conclusion based in part on the facts I have presented, and the lack of any contradictory information from you.

Pete