Am I Crazy?

[talus]

Hi everyone! We have been reading everything we can find in here and loving it. I'm sure you all get this question quite often but I really need some help here.

I'll give you some background. I'm an AirForce Search and Rescue pilot currently working as a search coordinator at a Joint Rescue Coordination Center (joint because it's AirForce and Coast Guard). A couple of years ago we were working on a overdue v/l case - the subject being a 39' Krogen. The boat was overdue on a trip between Seattle and Ketchikan, AK. To help locate the overdue boater one of our standard questions is to ask the next of kin where the missing boaters might have refueled. What floored me was the answer - "they don't fill up", actually, "they filled up in Seattle before they left and that is usually enough fuel for the summmer".

I have to tell you, this was a revelation moment for me. It quickly lead to reading everything I could find on trawlers. That of course lead to "Voyaging Under Power" by Robert Beebe and some sidetracking into Malcolm Tennant's multihull designs.

I have to say we were (are) sailors to start but the the draw of power is just too strong to resist --- 75% of our "sailboating" is under power anyway.

So here is the crazy part.

We are a family of 4 and want to move aboard - and not a sailboat (with the possible exception of a catamaran). The rough sail plan would to travel down the west coast, through the Panama Canal, and into the Caribbean with possible stops in Venezuela. This all depends on the boat purchase location --- reverse the plan if the boat comes from Florida or the east coast. There is no time frame to complete the journey... 3-5 years would be acceptable.

Here are some criteria:

Essential:
- 3 cabins ... we have a boy and girl going into their teens --- come to think of it maybe we should scrap the plan altogether hey? : )

Highly desirable:
- inside helm (think west coast weather -- i.e. continuous rain). This could be waved with a fully enclosed flybridge
- independence from shore power for at least a couple of weeks (probably more of a refrigeration issue but I also don't want spend my time with the generator on day and night).
- fuel conservation
- engine life maximization

Not and issue:
- speed

Budget:
- purchase budget of $300,000
- annual operating budget of $36,000 (loan, food, fuel, repairs, moorage, hauling & fees). Note - this can be doubled if I work back home part of the year which is likely.

Considerations:
- lenders reluctance to lend on v/l older than 10 years


What do I want to know?

I really like the 48' LRC (there are a few with 3 cabins) but is the added cost worth it?

Would a 48' Tri Cabin or 53'YF/MY be a better choice and the fuel burn acceptable with the throttles pulled back?

Does running these engines at lower RPM's kill them early?

Can you run on one engine at higher RPM (alternating for wear) to save fuel?

Is there anyone doing the long term live aboard and cruising with kids on a Hatteras out there?

Is there anyone doing the long term live aboard on their Hatt away from the dock for extended periods? What have you learned from it?

What Hatt would you recommend for this type of plan?

Lastly, my brother-in-law is a marine electrician. He basically says I should just take my money and light it on fire to get the feeling of large v/l ownership. Am I crazy?

BTW - we found the Krogen happily anchored up a west coast inlet enjoying the summer.

Cheers,
t

[Finalee]

Yep, you are crazy!

Plenty of information answering most of your questions in previous threads.

Having owned Trawlers must say the fuel efficiency can not be beat. The argument about having extra speed to avoid storms is the only one I hear supporting a planing hull.

A slow trawler at top speed is likely to be safer in a storm that a planing hull going slow. The purchase price difference is dramatic now too. Seems the planing hulls are dropping while the Trawlers are rising. Either way get one that is in top condition. It is worth paying extra for one ready to go.

[Avenger]

I can't speak to most of the aspects you're concerned with here, but.....

Your brother is a very smart man.

Even for a "small" boat like my 36C (small amongst the Hatteras community, huge to my friends) the constant bleeding of cash is incredible.

Welcome to the asylum.

[Jaxfishgyd]

You DO know what BOAT means don't you?????

Break
Out
Another
Thousand

[spartonboat1]

Yep, you are crazy!

Plenty of information answering most of your questions in previous threads.

Having owned Trawlers must say the fuel efficiency can not be beat. The argument about having extra speed to avoid storms is the only one I hear supporting a planing hull.

A slow trawler at top speed is likely to be safer in a storm that a planing hull going slow. The purchase price difference is dramatic now too. Seems the planing hulls are dropping while the Trawlers are rising. Either way get one that is in top condition. It is worth paying extra for one ready to go.

Recent thread on Hatt's planing pointed out that some of our old 'vintage' 43' and 44' DCMY's weren't really planing, but only make a bigger hole in the water faster. However, we have more of a deep vee aft, with a good sized keel, which contributes to the good sea keeping.

I have a '72 43' DCMY and when running at hull speed, approx 8.9kn (1,300-1,400 rpm) seem to get 1+mpg (nautical mpg- can't say). If at full cruise (2,200rpm) see 13-14 knots and 0.7 mpg, full throttle, maybe 16+ knots (mpg?).

The old 43's (there are quite a few around) had DD 6-71N's (w/Roots type blowers, but not turbo charged) so are durable and return decent economy, but not trawler level and had 375gal tanks, so a range of about 300-320 miles with 20% reserve, if running at hull speed, or 280 miles at cruise (assume 0.7 mpg). The helm and aft deck are fully covered, and enclosed abeit in canvas. Requires a coat and gloves (for holding my steel helm wheel) in cold weather: 30-40's.

The offset is that the trawlers seem pricey vs. the vintage Hatts. P.s., the stabilized vessels are nice for running in a beam sea, since these boats have somewhat of a snaproll under those conditions. Great in a head to quartering sea up to 5' and ok when running before the sea. The gennies will allow sitting at anchor, but I would install a dedicated battery for it for safety.

Don't know if I answered any questions...

[talus]

I thought I would gather a few of my favorite forum posts in one location. Unfortunately I have not made 15 posts so I can't leave a link - sorry. If your a regular here just just add the samsmarine portion to get the full link. Great info.


"48LRC vs 53 Classic" - Great balanced discussion on the pro's and con's of each vessel. If your are interested in either of these Hatt's there is a wealth of information to take away from this post.
...samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7968


"What does it cost to own an older hatt?" - For all those that want some real world numbers on expenses. There a some examples of DIY or contract it out costs as well as the standard replacement items. I really like it when people give their actual costs.
...samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9277


"53MY Owners: What's your cruise & burn?" - Very useful discussion on fuel burn, RPM and speed for the 53's.
...samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10857


"fuel consumption 8V71 naturals" - more in depth discussion on fuel burn and speed.
...samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11636


"Long trip capabilities" - some good discussion on Hatt's and long trips.
...samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12293


"Help on Hatteras trawler question" - starts with questions on the 58LRC and then covers a range of opinions. Good article for those with interest in LRC, or any of the 48 to 58 Hatts.
...samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12471


"Initial survey list for 53MY and 58YF" - good list of items to begin when you are doing a survey or great things to think about when your are kicking tires at the dock.
...samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2683

[ron6785]

Yes you are probably certifiable if planning to cruise with kids. Think about the worst case scenario with respect to maintenance costs, then add 10% and your at a starting point.

That being said, we are liveaboards and love it. Greatest lifestyle going. As I like to say My Home Don't have a front yard, my home has a starboardside, my home is rockin and rollin , going up and down with the tide.

The debate rages on about trawler vs motor yacht. I think all hatteras lrc's have true trawler hulls, with perhaps a slight shapeningof the aft chines to make the boat a little less rolly initially. Katy's are of course good trawlers. There are however alot of so called trawlers, Grand Banks, Marine Traders that have semi displacement hulls, so it pays to check that out.

It seems to me that the fuel economy of a true trawler, vs the much lower price of a MY has to be weighed. And in the final analysis if you go blue water cruising the bahamas and the Caribe are reachable with either type boat, BUT if you get caught in a storm, and you will , then whatever more money you may have spent for a proper trawler is money well spent.

[MikeP]

Only one part of the plan seems crazy to me.

When our kids were teens the last place I wanted to be was anywhere around them!

[yachtbrokerguy]

Awesome plan I hope you get to do it. Having sold numerous trawlers over the years I have heard from others who have similar ideas. I suggest that you check to see if an insurance company will insure you for offshore passages with your experience level. Also if you plan to finance part of the purchase price, find out if you qualify as a live aboard.
Doing this research is much less fun than discussing hull forms and fuel range, but it will give you the information to go forward without running into trouble later.