TESLA elec car

[stormchaser]

Oh, the R12 is an incredible performance machine. Absolutely Diesels CAN perform well, th problem is, if you want hp hp & torque, the fuel savings disappears.

[MikeP]

Good point and goes back to the idea that the fuel used will tell you the power used/made. If, for example a 300HP v8 is only asked to produce 75 HP, then it could be quite "economical."

So, here's a question...OK, the Tesla (assuming it or something like it does/will exist) can go 300 miles per charge but at what power level? Let's say I want to drive it like a performance car. Clearly it can't achieve the same range as if I drove it trying maximize range. Now, IF I drive it like a performance car that means I have to charge it more often. If I have to charge it more often, that consumes more electricity from the powerplant. Now the power plant has to generate more electricity which takes more oil/coal/gas (I figure we (US) are never going to get smart enough to figure out that nukes are the way to go and that all this wind/solar stuff is just a waste of time as far as a major source of power is concerned.)

SO again, since there is no free power and since I want to drive a PERFORMANCE car, is the pollution of the power plant to run my performance elec car going to be less than the pollution of my gas engine doing the same thing? Current gas engines hardly pollute at all and many scientists are saying that internal combustion engines are the most efficient way to move a vehicle. Obviously there is pollution involved in producing gas/diesel in the first place...as there is with producing electricity.

Ironically, in the '50s it was expected and stated that nuclear power would ultimately make electricity so cheap it would be virtually free.

[captddis]

Driving that fast on public roads is "irresponsible, etc"--writing about it here is just plain stupid LOL.

I'd still like to see somebody do a lifecycle "pollution analysis" on an electric car---you know with all them fancy nasty metals in the batteries......

You know, we could just make some cars smaller or put smaller little diesel engines in them. That'd pollute a lot less and use much less fuel.

Yeah no one thinks about the battery. I have a friend who is a Toyota lifttruck dealer and he says the electric lift trucks are the most popular, but when the battery goes they usually scrap the truck. The replacement battery costs more than the truck is worth.

[Dan Mapes]

While I looked at the Tesla with anticipation my interest has waned (actually my wallet has kept me away).
Instead I turn my interest towards the Karma by Fisker because this looks like a forward thinking company that is not only going to deliver a hybrid, but one that has some bling as opposed to looking like it should be stepped on.

http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/

[krush]

Oh, the R12 is an incredible performance machine. Absolutely Diesels CAN perform well, th problem is, if you want hp hp & torque, the fuel savings disappears.

Huh? Diesels are fundamentally more fuel efficient--thermodynamics and fluid dynamics says so.

[MikeP]

They are more fuel efficient but from reading, it seems that it takes more oil to make a gallon of Diesel than it does to make a gallon of gas. So that efficiency in the engine is offset to some extent at the processing side. I guess nothing is as easy as it seems.

Here's a quote re this from an article talking about increasing use of Diesels in Europe. Diesel is taxed at a lower rate in Euro so it's nearly $1 a gallon cheaper than gasoline.

"It should be noted, however, that it takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gasoline, so we should really look at how a vehicle does on fuel efficiency in terms of "oil equivalents." Thus, we need to adjust the mileage claims for diesel vehicles downward by about 20% when comparing them to gasoline-powered vehicles."

So with that adjustment, are they actually more efficient over the entire energy spectrum at the same power level?

[thoward]

Great idea, but nobody in the USA wants a small diesel car. Thanks to GM and the horrid Olds 350 diesel from the 70s, the reputation of diesel cars is terrible. Plus, nobody is willing to drive a car that takes 15+ seconds to get to 60, diesel costs more than gas, the engines are more expensive than gas, and a myriad of other reasons why diesel cars will never be anything more than a niche thing in the usa.

I would like one. Ideally a small utility truck, 4 door with a 4'x4' bed. When it comes to HP, give me a 6 speed manual and the torque will help. The Gem is a good start but I agree with Krush on the battery issues.

Here is a copy of the Top Gear problem. It was a good show.


It was billed by Jeremy Clarkson as the ultimate test for an electric car – a drag race against a Lotus Elise on BBC2's Top Gear. And it was a test that the £92,000 Tesla appeared to fail after it dramatically slowed down on the show's test track and was pushed into a garage to await charging.

But it has since emerged that the Tesla, which can be powered from an ordinary domestic plug, did not run out of electricity.

The car's California-based manufacturer said that the charge on neither of the two Teslas used in the Top Gear test fell below 20%.

The BBC today denied it had misled viewers, saying that the programme had "at no time" claimed that the car had run out of power. Programme-makers instead showed it slowing down to illustrate what would happen when the car did run out of charge.

But some viewers were left with a different impression. "I understand trying to make interesting TV, but when it materially changes the image or performance of the product, it's pretty underhanded," said one viewer on a car website.

Another said: "How pointless, in the same way if a car runs out of petrol I know what happens without a reconstruction of the event."

The Tesla initially beat the Elise around the Top Gear track. Clarkson, who described "brown rice eco cars" as a "bit like cod liver oil – very good for you but you would rather have a plate of steak and chips", was impressed as it beat its rival from a standing start.

"God almighty, wave goodbye to dial-up, say hello to the world of broadband motoring," said Clarkson.

"I cannot believe this – that's biblically quick. This car is electric, literally. The top speed may only be 125mph but there's so much torque it does 0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds. Not bad from a motor the size of a watermelon and which has only one moving part."

But later the Tesla was shown slowing down on the track, the soundtrack came to a halt and Clarkson looked around dumbfounded before the car was pushed into a garage, apparently out of electricity. "Oh," he said.

"This car really was shaping up to be something wonderful," said Clarkson in his voiceover. "But then..."

"Although Tesla say it will do 200 miles we worked out that on our track it would run out after just 55 miles," continued Clarkson's voiceover.

"And if it does run out it's not a quick job to charge it up again. To fill the tank on a normal car it takes a couple of minutes. To fully recharge the batteries on this from a normal 13 amp socket like this takes 16 hours. So to get from here to the top of Scotland would take more than three days."

Rachel Konrad, a spokeswoman for Tesla, said at no time did the batteries in either of the two cars used in the Top Gear test drop below 20% charge.

She told MediaGuardian.co.uk: "The image of them pushing it off the track was so searing," she said.

But she said she was generally happy with the overall tone of the review. "I thought it was a positive piece for Tesla by Top Gear standards. I personally like the show – it savages cars in a very entertaining way.

"My concern was with American viewers who were tuning in for the first time and might not understand the whole angle of the show. We wanted to make clear that range was not a concern over the entire time of the [Top Gear] test."

She said the company would not be pursuing the matter with the BBC. "We would love to have them drive it again whenever they want."

But the BBC today stood by the programme, which first aired on 14 December and was repeated on BBC2 last Sunday, 21 December.

"At no time did we claim that the cars ran out of charge," said a BBC spokeswoman.

"When the car began to lose power we included a voiceover which stated: 'And if it does run out it's not a quick job to charge it up again.' Top Gear stands by the findings in this film and is content that it offers a fair representation of the Tesla's performance on the day it was tested."

Clarkson, famously cynical about efforts to reduce the impact of motoring on the environment, was nevertheless impressed with the electric car, describing himself as a "volt head" – as opposed to a petrol head – and declared: "Yes, it's snowing in hell".

[Brian Degulis]

Driving that fast on public roads is "irresponsible, etc"--writing about it here is just plain stupid LOL.

I'd still like to see somebody do a lifecycle "pollution analysis" on an electric car---you know with all them fancy nasty metals in the batteries......

You know, we could just make some cars smaller or put smaller little diesel engines in them. That'd pollute a lot less and use much less fuel.

The VW dealers around here can't keep the diesel Rabbit on the lot even @ full sticker price.

Brian

[saltshaker]

I've driven a diesel Jetta and it was a nice ride. No race car but no dog either. My neighbor has one and drives 40 miles each way to work daily. He claims he regularly sees mid 40's MPG and he's not light on the pedal. Others I've spoke to with VW TDI's have similar comments. Used ones seem to hold their value even with high miles.

[will pierson]

I don't see any mention of heat or AC. What do you think that will do the mileage?