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brush painting Awlgrip
Blue Note is going to need a topside paint job that the boatyard was unable to get to. I plan to do this and brush it. I don't think we have had a thread on brushing Awlgrip (over previously applied Awlgrip about twelve years old btw) so if anyone has any useful info to pass along, please do so here. I have arranged a covered slip for a month which ought to suffice unless the weather REALLY gets terrible up here.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Jim, The small foam rollers do a great job. Using them will leave you with almost no brushing to do. When you brush into corners etc., use a good natural bristle brush and finish with verticle strokes.
There used to be very good instructions in the Algrip literature. Most of your work will be in the preparation. But first, have you tried to rub out the existing paint with Finessit followed by Awlcare?
Bob
PS one other tip, add some accelerator even in warm weather and mix small batches. This will minimize airborne dirt pickup.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Duly noted. I am setting all this up as we speak. It will give me something to do and the boat will look better for the season. Plus I'll learn something. Famous last words.
any other contributions are welcome. I haven't done this before so I am keen to hear any advice available.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
It's a two to three person job to keep the paint going on and the wet edge. Communication is critical as once the paint is mixed the timer starts, Once on the boat the timer accelerates. Do the prep and hire a pro to do the finish. That way you get the best results. It's an art not an easy to learn skill.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
If I remember correctly, from my last boat , Awlgrip coats have to be applied while the previous coat is still tacky. That makes tipping and rolling deck surfaces difficult because you would have to walk on wet paint. You would almost have to set up an overhead scaffold.
Art
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
There is a lot of discussion of this in the archives of the Hull Truth forum. A lot of DIY painters over there of smaller boats.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=site:th...sh&form=APMCS1
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
I couldnt agree more with Scott that it is more an art than a skill.
His advice on doing the prep, including: sanding, fairing, sanding, priming, sanding, fairing, sanding, priming and then final sanding... yourself and then hiring guy who does it every day to lay out the topcoat is great. The $$ is in the labor of the prep work and not the last few hours of either roll and tipping or spraying.
I had my flybridge and decks done this past fall with the roll and tip method using ALexseal instead of awlgrip.
The foam brushes are key and also the right brush. The preferred brush as I understand it is the "Corona Europa" which is softer than the old "eurethaner."
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
I am in the process of painting my boat (YF 58) with awlgrip, which is very forgiving to work with. If you are going to paint a large area you might try some standard size foam rollers that donīt come apart with the reducer and you almost donīt have to tip it with a brush. I do not remember the brand but I bought them at Merritt Supply which I am sure they can guide you to. My recommendation, apart from surface prep. which is 90% of the work, is to make a mental plan of the painting job. Donīt do as my neighbor at the marina that painted himself to the bow and had to jump in the water ( true story!!) also be careful with the weather, a small drizzle will turn your job into a unwanted non-skid surface .Good luck.
PD: next month I will start painting the hull. I will try to post some picture in my own post.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Jim,
If you like, we can talk on the phone. Right before Thanksgiving I finished painting our top side with Awlgrip on "SeaWhisperer". All that was used for the application was a 6" sponge rollers. If your going to be out of direct sun light, this is better. You'll have a better control with solvent popping in the paint. I also found that using 35% or more of the reducer on your last coat of paint will leave your finish as smooth as glass. Also more reducer will control the solvent popping should your surface get to warm. It's all in the prep. When painting between coats you need to wait the 16 hours but no more then 24 hours or you'll be sanding between coats. My choice was to sand regaurdless with 320 - 400 between each coat. My plan this summer is to paint the bottom half of our Hatt. Tech support was helpfully at Awlgrip, the guys gave me a few pointers with using their product. I'm sure you will find others here in the fourm that have great Idea's on application!
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Mike PM me with your phone number, if you don't mind.
I am going to rent a covered slip for this, I don't think I could manage it in the sunlight. I am trying to find a second guy to help me, I think that is a good idea, too, as you all said.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Jim has shared his plans with me and most of what he wants to paint is non-skid. Pretty simple and straight forward. The few areas that are "shiny" are small and will be quite easy to get around and coat. I think he will do fine.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
I rolled the hull of my boat in 2004... Came out great... foam rollers were the key and had almost zero use of a brush... And it still looks super...
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SeaEric
Jim has shared his plans with me and most of what he wants to paint is non-skid. Pretty simple and straight forward. The few areas that are "shiny" are small and will be quite easy to get around and coat. I think he will do fine.
Are you going to help him?
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SeaEric
Jim has shared his plans with me and most of what he wants to paint is non-skid. Pretty simple and straight forward. The few areas that are "shiny" are small and will be quite easy to get around and coat. I think he will do fine.
Non skid is probably one of the worst areas to repaint. No one wants to grind all the old nonskid off but to get the new paint to stick it has to be done. There is virtualy no way to get the surface clean and free of imbedded oils and crap with out doing it. You'll need a 7" sander with one of those thick foam pads. If you use a 4 or 5" DA or jitterbug you just end up with those "DIY" divots. Prep is the key if you dont want potato chips of awlgrip peeling in a year.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
I'd wait until the pollen season is over. It's awful in Central Virginia. Md can't be much better. If anyone is painting now, it had better be yellow paint!
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rsmith
Non skid is probably one of the worst areas to repaint. No one wants to grind all the old nonskid off but to get the new paint to stick it has to be done. There is virtualy no way to get the surface clean and free of imbedded oils and crap with out doing it. You'll need a 7" sander with one of those thick foam pads. If you use a 4 or 5" DA or jitterbug you just end up with those "DIY" divots. Prep is the key if you dont want potato chips of awlgrip peeling in a year.
I agree with rsmith on this one!!. I ended up taking a obrital sander and 60 grit to get my old non skid off!!! But I have to mention an observation that I saw this past summer! A couple of painters back in July was working on a hatt two slips down. . What caught my attention was, they were scubbing a fresh painted deck (10 days old) with a course brush and soft scrub. What had happend was the deck was painted with the wrong white shade of color. I just couldn't walk away without asking... Don't you need to sand the non skid off the deck and start over? Their reply was, this method had the same effect as using 400 grit sand paper. So after a day of scrubing, and two days later, they rolled a new shade of white to match. It's been 8 months and the boat will be returning from the Bahama's in a couple of weeks... So what say the painters?
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OBXTucker
I'd wait until the pollen season is over. It's awful in Central Virginia. Md can't be much better. If anyone is painting now, it had better be yellow paint!
Fighting lady yellow always looks good on a SF.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim rosenthal
Mike PM me with your phone number, if you don't mind.
I am going to rent a covered slip for this, I don't think I could manage it in the sunlight. I am trying to find a second guy to help me, I think that is a good idea, too, as you all said.
Bump!! PM sent.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boatsb
Fighting lady yellow always looks good on a SF.
NOOOOOOOOOOO bad luck like Bananas!!!!!
http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/...ng_Boating.jpg
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
I had non skid done three boats ago by a lauderdale crew from Grenada. They used a heavy grit compund and a buffing machine followed by an etching solution like "liquid sand."
I have to say I was skeptical but they had done good work for me in the past and it lasted years until I sold the boat and have no idea how long after that.
His name was Andy Mitchell and I wish he was still working, I heard he went back to the Grenadines and opened a restaurant... nice kid.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Jim, what slip did you end up in at Piney? I'll be there on Apr 20; I'll be glad to give you a hand if you are still there doing work.
As you know, KJ (F dock) did my nonskid two years ago and did a superb job. He'd be a good resource for techniques/advice. But I'm not sure if he will be back at the marina during the timeframe - I can't recall when he/Judy are coming back from FL.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
I think it's going to be D-12 but she's going to tell me for certain once my boat goes in. Which shouldn't be too long. I was over at Smith's today and asked them to get it ready STAT and let me know when it's going in.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Along the lines of prep has anyone ever removed the bow rail stantions? Geeze they are held in by three screws each. What could go wrong? :p
Seriously, how well do the bolts holding things like cleats and stantions come out?
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
They are through bolted on many of the SF's with access above and outside the headliner but it takes 2 people to get the nuts off. Some of the MY have threaded bolts into plates under the glass.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dan mapes
along the lines of prep has anyone ever removed the bow rail stantions? Geeze they are held in by three screws each. What could go wrong? :p
seriously, how well do the bolts holding things like cleats and stantions come out?
snap!!!!!
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
When I first removed them years ago I had a lot of trouble; the bolts used at the factory were bronze, and they had all wasted away from electrolysis. I had to drill out almost all of them.
After that I used SS bolts, and no problems. The rail and bases have been off since then, about 12-14 years ago for a paint job, and they came out without too many difficulties. This time, though, I am just going to tape all that off and paint around them.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
If you have compressed air for sanding and clean up the job may be doable. The problem with rolling/brushing is getting the primer on. By the time you sand the brush marks or roller stipple out you don't have much primer left. I just bought two quarts of awlgrip primer but I havn't had time to try it. The 545 primer doesn't roll out that well. I ended up stripping the non-skid. It was eating up sandpaper as fast as I could change it. The primer I just got was awlquip.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Agree, it is impossible to apply Algrip primer with out spraying. BUT, do you need to prime an already painted boat? When a pro did my trawler, he did not use primer and the job still looked perfect when I sold it six years later most of which was full time liveaboard/cruising.
Bob
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SeaWhisper
I agree with rsmith on this one!!. I ended up taking a obrital sander and 60 grit to get my old non skid off!!! But I have to mention an observation that I saw this past summer! A couple of painters back in July was working on a hatt two slips down. . What caught my attention was, they were scubbing a fresh painted deck (10 days old) with a course brush and soft scrub. What had happend was the deck was painted with the wrong white shade of color. I just couldn't walk away without asking... Don't you need to sand the non skid off the deck and start over? Their reply was, this method had the same effect as using 400 grit sand paper. So after a day of scrubing, and two days later, they rolled a new shade of white to match. It's been 8 months and the boat will be returning from the Bahama's in a couple of weeks... So what say the painters?
Yes you can do that actually Sterling paint suggest using comet and a sponge or light scrub brush. I have done it to faded paint jobs must have been over 12 years ago paint still sticking.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobk
Agree, it is impossible to apply Algrip primer with out spraying. BUT, do you need to prime an already painted boat? When a pro did my trawler, he did not use primer and the job still looked perfect when I sold it six years later most of which was full time liveaboard/cruising.
Bob
If the surface still is good and not beat to crap and oxidized badly you don't need to prime. Just read the application guides of any paint your going to use then when your done reading, do it again!
Really each time you will pick up on some more tips Awlgrip has a nice little book I think its $5 to $8 for it
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
34Hatt
Yes you can do that actually Sterling paint suggest using comet and a sponge or light scrub brush. I have done it to faded paint jobs must have been over 12 years ago paint still sticking.
Ive been told that from another manufacturer too and they also suggested a 3M pad or brass wire brush to prep the non skid to paint over. I believe the best part of that was the original non skid was used again and I did not have to add more grit.
Then again I tried the KIWIGRIP and had to say after a year and a half its pretty good and was so much easier. With the dog and the kids I expected it to be torn up but I am pleasantly surprised at how well it holds up.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
There's no shine left on the nonskid part of my decks. It's all be scrubbed off long since. I am going to degrease it with Awlprep, re-scuff it with a Scotchbrite pad, and roll new AG and GripTex onto it. I think it will be fine. It's the shiny parts I am worried about. We'll see how it goes.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
You need to do the shiny parts a bit different. I would suggest the shiny parts be done after the rest so you dont get the griptex on them.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boatsb
You need to do the shiny parts a bit different. I would suggest the shiny parts be done after the rest so you dont get the griptex on them.
I always do the shine part first it is to hard to tape and get a good line against non skid.
As for Kiwi mine also is holding up very well that stuff is as hard as a rock. But I am sure Scott's family and FL sun is the true test!
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
34Hatt
I always do the shine part first it is to hard to tape and get a good line against non skid.
As for Kiwi mine also is holding up very well that stuff is as hard as a rock. But I am sure Scott's family and FL sun is the true test!
True with the tape but I never marred the nonskid the way I have the shiny. i do get the dropsys every now and again.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dsharp
If you have compressed air for sanding and clean up the job may be doable. The problem with rolling/brushing is getting the primer on. By the time you sand the brush marks or roller stipple out you don't have much primer left. I just bought two quarts of awlgrip primer but I havn't had time to try it. The 545 primer doesn't roll out that well. I ended up stripping the non-skid. It was eating up sandpaper as fast as I could change it. The primer I just got was awlquip.
I have rolled a total of 3 gallons of Awlgrip 545 on the top side without any problems... Awlgrip recommends 2 coats prior to top coat paints. I used D8001 White base, D3001 Converter, T0031 Brush reducer.
The below is from Awlgrip
545 is a two component epoxy primer with outstanding corrosion and adhesion properties for steel, aluminum, wood, and fiberglass substrates. 545 is used to seal surfacing primers before applying topcoats. It may be applied by spray, brush, or roller and may be used above or below the waterline.
Application Instructions
Spray Application:
Apply smooth, wet coats to fill and cover surface profile. 2-3 coats may be needed at 7-10 mils (175-250 microns) WFT yielding 2-3
mils (50-75 microns) DFT.
Brush or Roller Application:
Apply 2 coats at 3-4 mils (75-100 microns) WFT yielding 1.0-1.5 mils (25-37 microns) DFT per coat. Allow 12-14 hours between coats.
Light sanding between coats will improve appearance. For large surfaces, rolling then tipping with a brush is preferred.
Do not apply paint materials to surfaces warmer than 105°F or colder than 55°F. Do noattempt to cure products at temperatures below
55°F.
Warning:
Do not apply paint materials to surfaces less than 3°C (5° F) above dew point, or to surfaces warmer than 41°C (105°
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Thanks for all the help on this. I am starting to collect everything I'll need to do this. Turns out I have a lot of AG products sitting around- I must have anticipated this in the past :)
I spent the last few days getting Blue Note ready to move after she went back in the water- got everything put back up, and replaced some SS clamps for the seawater feed hose to the PSS system on the port side. If the weather cooperates, we will move her Thursday and after that over to the covered shed and I'll begin this project.
I expect to have plenty of help, in the form of dockside kibitzers who come by and tell me everything I'm doing wrong. Which, I suppose, will be plenty....
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Jim, you will need good light for sure. You might want to pull the boat outside for the actual painting, then pull it in for curing. All the pros down here in Miami do sand between coats. That is the main advantage of spraying. You can overcoat every 2 hours. Wet on wet gives the best bond, but is not to be done with roll and tip.
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maynard Rupp
Jim, you will need good light for sure. You might want to pull the boat outside for the actual painting, then pull it in for curing. All the pros down here in Miami do sand between coats. That is the main advantage of spraying. You can overcoat every 2 hours. Wet on wet gives the best bond, but is not to be done with roll and tip.
The last thing you want to do is paint in direct sunlight!!!!!!
Just use these things called Flood light you can get them at Home Dumpo!
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Re: brush painting Awlgrip
I do have instructions and some from USPaint. Apparently the brushing/rolling converter allows you to re-roll the second coat within sixteen hours, and it will still cross-link with the first coat. I hope so. And I am not going to paint it in the sun.
As a matter of fact I think I am going to tie up next to MikeP's Hatteras and sand away, hoping he'll wash both boats at the same time :)