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Just for the sake of discussion has anyone ever successfully converted a 2 stroke Detroit to run on natural gas? In one of the other forums a guy said that he had read about some companies successfully running 92 series on natural gas over in Texas . Natural gas is going to be the future in my opinion and I'm curious if I will have to sell my boat or whether I will be able to simply convert.
Any input on this subject is appreciated.
Now this is going to be interesting....
BTW, i have seen propane injection on diesel pickup trucks, and now there is an outboard that is being marketed that runs on propane.
I think the big show stopper for a boat running on CNG is the tank and the zero ability to fill up
CNG on the water.
"I think the big show stopper for a boat running on CNG is the tank and the zero ability to fill up
CNG on the water"
LOL - bragging rights to having a CNG DD would be somewhat reduced if you had to say, "My Hatteras runs on CNG! Any idea where I can get some?" :o
Most hospital generators run on nat gas but everyone I've ever seen has been a CatQuote:
Originally Posted by arielmiller
i recently saw a press release from Cummins that they announced a 15L spark ignited CNG engine.....
Again, i think it will be a very long time before we see CNG engines in marine applications due to the tank and limited (zero) fuel docks CNG capable....
The one consideration is the complete lack of lubricating qualities in CNG when compared to Diesel fuel.
I recall a number of propane conversions with over the road light trucks in the 80's. They worked well although cylinder heads/ valve guides suffered and had to be changed out intervals not seen prior. Performance also suffered as winter temps dropped and the CNG volume became more liquid the closer it came to - 40c. This however was Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec. Water us a bit firm at this point and boating is a bar discussion.
it is probably 10 years out now but i think natural gas will make it's way over to boats sooner then everyone thinks. compare natural gas to petroleum by energy output. The simplest and easiest method to compute the energy output is BTU. Natural gas is much much cheaper per BTU and the green house gas is substantially less. It also will drastically reduce our dependence on foreign countries which is a huge plus. The marine industry will be forced to adapt. There are many factors at play which slowly force things to change. Cost of NG vs petroleum, EPA standards, etc.
Gas stations will quickly adopt as well. There just has to be a way to convert current diesel engines to run on NG.
Not worried about it. Besides, doesn't the diesel oil cool the head as well as feed the injectors? :confused:
One backyard way to run CNG is to just inject it in the intake. You will still need to use diesel fuel to initiate combustion, but you can may be able to reduce this to a 20% diesel 80% CNG ratio.
Pure NG engines require spark ignition. Many of the big OEM's make gas (nat gas, LPG, etc) engine variants of diesel engines, but they have spark plugs.
Google and youtube have lots of guys that have experimented with this stuff. Companies have developed this stuff...check out this PDF of a Nat gas diesel conversion: http://www.gfs-corp.net/pdf/GTI%20201-07.pdf
I believe they tried this in Vancouver in a smaller ferry, compressed NG, storage was a serious problem as range and HP could not really be satisfied with the space available, seemed to die a natural death, seems I recall a concern about safety due to the very high pressures in the storage tanks and rupture could be catastrophic.
I have seen many buses run on CNG. Wouldn't they have the same problems with regards to tank fuel storage and power output? Maybe those engines are specifically designed from the get go to run on CNG?
Newer engine designs are made to run cng. As for fueling they go between their fueling stations not out to public schools service stations.
You could convert to run on it (assuming you can figure out how you're going to inject the fuel; the existing injectors aren't going to work so good ;-)) but before you seriously consider it I suggest you take a look at the pressures involved in a CNG storage tank (hint: They're high), the hydro requirement (and the fun that might ensue getting the tankage out and in to meet that), leak, fuel line, regulator and valving considerations, the mass of said tank(s) (not a huge problem in a big boat, but a consideration) and the real killer, which is the amount physical space required (including the tank itself) to store an equivalent number of BTUs of energy as you have in your diesel tankage now.
Oh, and the availability of a place with the requisite high-pressure system to refill the tanks. That could be a problem too.
scuba tanks.
Back when I was young enough to enjoy gluing together Revell plastic models ( Probably around 1960) I remember a WWII Soviet Tank model which had CNG storage tanks mounted on top of the tank body and the explaination was that the Russians did not have enough crude oil for fuel and had to use natural gas. There were about 6 storage tanks probably 1/2 the size of a 55 gal drum.
I remember thinking back then that this was another example of the flawed communist system. I suspect the public school curriculum and overall take on communist has changed since I was a kid.
Regards,
One of the ferries that runs between Norfolk and Portsmouth, the James C Echols, is natural gas powered. She was converted while I was one of their captains back in the 90s. She was the first NG powered passenger ferry in the USA (maybe the world?). We had to go through all sorts of special training and the boat had to be retested for stability due to the changes to install the tanks. If I recall correctly, the engines are Cat 3406-G. After conversion from diesel to NG, she was nan underpower pig. But reliable, and clean.
A real option might be propane (LP Gas) injection as an efficiency booster for the diesel engine. A local specialist near me does this a lot on trucks and diesel cars.
The main fuel is the diesel and the gas increases efficiency of the burn. Claimed to reduce fuel consumption in road vehicles by around 30% and increase power and torque in varying degrees.
You don't need a lot of the gas for injection as it is mainly there to burn the diesel better.
Another bonus is that if you can't find propane in any particular location you can still run as per normal on diesel.
I have no idea what the effectiveness would be on a large boat but it is an interesting thought.
As soon as it becomes practical, the cost will be same as diesel or gasoline, look at the history of propane pricing, as it became automotive fuel, up went the price...
Capitalism is supposed to reduce pricing via entrepreneurship making products less expensive and more available therefore creating more jobs and wealth, fuel Co's are the doing the opposite.
The Washington State Ferry system is looking to start converting a number of their ferries to LNG. We may start to see this become more mainstream, at least in the commercial sector, in coming years.
mynorthwest.com/11/676309/Washington-ferries-consider-natural-gas-as-fuel-
Cheers,
Ryan
I had a propane injection kit on my VW Jetta TDi. It really works. Almost 100% of the fuel is burned (as opposed to approximately 75% without propane injection). In the case of my car, I saw a dyno-verified increase in power of 24hp and 47lb ft of torque (stock was only 90hp). And I GAINED 2mpg! EGT went up by about 45*F.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabrooke
This may be interesting for some; Volvo makes an engine that will run nat gas + diesel: http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopenta...Language=en-gb
Got this email....
Quote:
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The DFM100 is part of a cost effective, affordable means of turning diesel engines into diesel gas engines for Bi Fuel applications. The function is to drive two GAC independent feedback equipped electric actuators in conjunction with one GAC Electronic Speed Drive (ESD) and one GAC Magnetic Pick-Up. read more
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