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i have the chance to get 300 gallons of diesel for free. it has been sitting for about 8 years. is it worth getting? what should i add to it if i do get it? if i do get it i will filter it before putting it in the boat, and i will seperate it between the three tanks. anything else ? help me make my decision. any help would be appreciated. bigbill
Tough to say without seeing it. It will probably burn without too much trouble if you blend it with fresh fuel and dose it with some cetane booster (Stanadyne Performance Formula is my favorite). If you can look at a sample see how brown it is, the clearer the better. A lot depends on how it was stored. i.e. in an underground tank at a relatively constant temperature is much better than a steel tank in the sun. You should also be on the lookout for water and bacteria.
Diesel is significantly more stable than gasoline, however there are a few things you must be wary of in accepting old stock.
Cetane loss
Water
Asphetine formation
Bacterial contamination
Other particulate contamination.
These can be adequately addressed with tight micron filtration and water seperation. Be prepared to go through a lot of filters. Better yet, hire a fuel polisher to come out and do it. Cetane loss can be restored via enhancers such as Diesel Kleen.
I assume you have Detroits and if so, you'll probably be ok. Don't try this with modern common rail engines as they have a much lower tolerance for poor quality fuel.
I had a similar opportunity a few years back. I filtered the old fuel and burned it in my furnace at the house. My thinking was it just was not worth the risk of feeding questionable fuel in a boat with family & friends on board.
No problem Run it through a fast fitration system like 4-5 GPM and 2 micron flters shake it up reall good. Then add an enzym biocide and a good cetane booster. It will be better than what you get out of the pump.
Brian
hey passages, i have 2003 john deere 450hp engines. where do i get these chemicals from? please give me a name brand, not the chemical name. if i do this i will probably mix the old fuel about 25% to 75% new fuel, this should help also. bigbill
Wal*Mart is where you can find Diesel Kleen. Look for the grey bottle not the white. (White is cold weather anti-gel)
Stanadyne metioned by Scrod is also well regarded but cost more. I believe it can be found at NAPA.
If you find it at NAPA I'd like to know about it. Stanadyne is only supposed to be sold by Stanadyne dealers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Passages
That's not to say that NAPA isn't buying it from a dealer and re-selling it, but they'd probably have to mark it up over what a dealer would sell it for.
If you want to use the Stanadyne you can call Power Products Division at 1-800-842-2496 or go to www.stanadyne.com and use the dealer locator. BTW, Stanadyne is specifically recommended by John Deere.
Hmm, maybe I should consider a career in sales....:rolleyes:
*Disclaimer: Yes, I do have an affiliation with Stanadyne. But if you use DieselKleen I won't be offended :D
Bill, two simple thoughts:
(1) take a sample and send it out for analysis, just like lube oil...don't take a chance...
(2) when drawing off the fuel, filter it and pump it though a visible section so you can observe and filter what you are putting into your boat.
300 gallons will not be pleasing if it turns out to be shot!!!!
Good advice on sampling it. The major items you look for are sediment (visual), water presence (paper test), and flash point test (special equipment). I wouldn't put it in my tanks until a fuel quality lab runs a 30 minute test. Finding a local lab might be a problem.
Good luck
Sounds like Stanadyne is living in the stone-ages of marketing/distribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrod
I ran 100 gallons of 10 year old diesel out of our forward holding tank (converted to fuel by PO in 1992 and then disconnectied in 1995 but never emptied of fuel) in our boat with no trouble at all - just pumped it with an old 12v Holley fuel pump into the forward main fuel tank which had around 150 gal of fuel in it at the time. No treatment of any kind and it ran without any problem at all. All I did was look at it and burn some on a piece of cloth to see if it burned exactly the same way as the fresh diesel. Looked fine to me.
I suppose you can do serious tests and, if it makes you feel more comfortable, that's great. On the other hand, you can make yourself crazy overscience-ing a lot of things...
Oh, that's bad fuel. You don't want that stuff. I'll just come and take it off of your hands. You would probably have a hard time disposing of it anyway. :D :D
Yes, and no. It's too involved and irrelevant to get into here. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by krush
here are some more questions. this [diesel] could possibly be kerosene. it was used for a basement heating unit. it has no water in it, it has a red color to it, it smells like diesel but not as strong of an odor. i have never heard of diesel being used as a home heating source. my questions are: if this is kerosene, does it go bad? can i filter it and run it in my boat? [i have heard that kerosene is a more refined version of diesel ?] should i just kill grass with it? it turns out that it is only about 125 gallons, not 300 as originally thought. it is still about 500 dollars worth of fuel if good, if not i have a lot of weed killer, and a 300 gallon tank to boot. thanks for your opinions. bigbill
Home heating oil is, for all intents and purposes, diesel fuel.
It is not weed killer. That could be a major clean up issue as any dirt contaminated would need to be removed. I believe the cost could be well over $1000/gallon spilled if that happens. Please do not do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbill
As for burning it the difference between heating oil, diesel and kerosene is minimal.
According to our heating oil delivery guy when we were in LI, the only difference between #2 heating oil and diesel is the dye added to diesel fuel to show that road tax has been paid. That way, if you used #2 in your car, you could be fined because the fuel is the wrong color.
Mike, exactly.
BTW, "off road" diesel is dyed too (red).
Don't get caught with it in your car. Low risk for a personal vehicle, but commercial guys can (and sometimes do) get stopped by the DOT and they'll stick a dipstick down your tank hole - if it comes out red, bend over and grab your ankles.
BTW if you run dyed fuel the dye is designed to "contaminate" the fuel (leave a visible color change) for a LONG time. So if you do run it once, it will be SEVERAL tanks before the color disappears.
Below is a copy/paste on legal requirements for dyed diesel. Look at the bottom and note penalties associated with using dyed diesel in recreation boats. WTF??? Is that prohibition something new??
Motor Fuel Requirements
What are the specific requirements of dyed diesel?
The fuel must be dyed prior to the removal at the terminal rack.
The dyed diesel must be properly labeled.
What does "properly labeled" mean?
Storage tanks, containers, or facilities must be labeled with a legible & conspicuous notice stating "Dyed Diesel Fuel, Non-Taxable Use Only".
Bills of lading and invoices accompanying any sale of dyed diesel must contain a legible & conspicuous notice stating "Dyed Diesel Fuel, Non-Taxable Use Only, Penalty For Taxable Use".
Why must I report my dyed diesel transactions?
These transactions must be reported in order to track the tax-free sales and use of the dyed diesel fuel. Additionally, UST and EIF reporting applies to dye diesel.
How do I report my dyed diesel transactions?
You report the transactions by separating out your dyed diesel activities from your other special fuel transactions.
What are the violations for not properly using dyed diesel?
Knowingly selling or attempting to sell dyed diesel fuel for highway use:
First Offense: $2,500 fine Class A misdemeanor.
Second or Subsequent Offense: $5,000 fine Class 4 felony.
Knowingly sell, store, or transport dyed diesel fuel without the required notices:
First Offense: $500 fine
Second or Subsequent Offense: $1,000 fine
Having dyed diesel in the fuel tanks attached to a licensed motor vehicle:
First Offense: $2,500 fine, Class A misdemeanor
Second or Subsequent Offense: $5,000 Class 4 felony
Knowingly selling or attempting to sell dyed diesel fuel for use in a recreational-type watercraft:
First Offense: $5,000 fine Class 4 felony.
Second or Subsequent Offense: $10,000 fine Class 2 felony.
Knowingly possessing dyed diesel for use in recreational-type watercraft:
First Offense: $2,500 fine Class A misdemeanor
Second or Subsequent Offense: $5,000 Class 2 felony
How are violations discovered?
Word-of-mouth or anonymous referrals
Account reviews
Audits
Site inspections
Knowingly selling or attempting to sell dyed diesel fuel for use in a recreational-type watercraft:
First Offense: $5,000 fine Class 4 felony.
That part kind of confused me...Off road fuel in Illinois is RED. Taxed fuel is clear. When in Texas last week, I was talking with some of the good ol' boys about this after reading the placards on a diesel driven pump fuel tank. Most of them live on farms, and carry an off road tank in the bed of their trucks. They usually fill their main tanks from these. When I asked them about inspections, they replied,"never, except when you go to an event like a rodeo or tractor pull, then the DOT checks them all in the parking lot".
To me, that seems like a bit of entrapment being on private property and not on the roads. ws
You can burn Kerosene in a DD it does not have the lubricating qualities of diesel but there is no need to worry about that unless your using it for years. It burns very clean but produces less power than diesel fuel. Engines with injection pumps in line or rotary should not use kersone because of the lack of lubricants.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbill
Home heating oil can be used in diesels but it is not filtered as well and the cetane rating is lower. So you should use a cetane booster and expect more frequent filter changes.
In FL all "off road" high sulfer diesel is dyed red it is not legal for on road use. Large trucks are checked pick up's almost never. I was checked in a pick up and got fined for high sulfer fuel. The DOT pulled some fuel saw it was red and issued the fine. I went to court with it based on the idea that red fuel was not conclusive proof that it was high sulfer. I found several additives that turn fuel red. The judge agreed with me and threw it out.
Marine pumps in FL all supply off road dyed diesel it is legal for use in recreational boats in FL.
Brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passages
Would this be in CT? I passed through last week, they had 87 octane gas for 5.14/gal while everyone else was 3.77.