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First time winterizing myself
I've decided it's about time I learned how to winterize my own boat and use those boat dollars for other things she needs. It's out of the water and on the hard now. I understand some things from reading the past threads here but I have several questions. First, mine is a twin diesel (8/53's) with the heat exchangers so do I just disconnect the inlet hose at the thru hull, attach a new hose to the inlet hose put it in the bucket with the antifreeze, start up the engine and wait until the pink stuff come out of the exhaust or is there more I need to consider? I also read I need to drain each strainer so I know how to do that. What about the fresh water. I know I have to drain and bypass the water heater first, but then can I attach a hose, from an external pump, to the shore water inlet on the starbord side, put the end in the bucket and force the water through to each faucet? Now the heads, do I just pour antifreeze into the heads flush them? And lastly, the two A/C units. I have one pump that feeds both compressors. Do I disconnect the hose at compressor side of the pump, attach my pump and force the pink stuff through or do I have to have the ac units turned on so the ac pump circulates the pink stuff? Did I forget anything? Thanks in advance for any and all help.
Greg
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Re: First time winterizing myself
If the boat is on the hard and you open the seacocks, no antifreeze should be needed in the strainer baskets because the water will drain out. If the boat's in the water, then yes, the strainers are filled with pink antifreeze. Same is true of the ac. If the ac units' plumbing is per oem, they are self draining. If you open the ac pump seacock, that is all you need to do. Obviously, when you open the seacocks, check to see that the water did, in fact, drain out.
There are a lot of ways to do the engines. I just remove a zinc fitting at the HE and pump 6 gal of pink in through that fitting on each engine. On our 8V71TIs that gets sufficient pink into the water standing in the exhaust system. Other folks use other methods.
If your boat is in salt water, the FW system is the most likely place for damage because it freezes at a higher temp than salt water. Also, there are FW lines in places that may not be immediately apparent - like windshield washers, ice maker, etc. Our FW system has several ball valves/fittings so it's easy to isolate the water tank and connect a hose/bucket of pink and use the FW pump to pick up the pink and pump it throughout the boat, checking to see that pink comes out of EVERY faucet/fitting/applicable appliance on the boat (dishwasher, clothes washer, etc). On our 53 that takes about 2-3 gallons of pink (after draining/isolating the hot water heater) and from the time the pump is "diverted" to feed from the bucket of pink, it takes maybe 15-20 minutes if that to winterize the FW system. Some folks have had good luck with using compressed air to blow out the FW system but I personally don't trust the concept and have never tried it. Remember to run BOTH the hot and cold side of all sinks and showers to be sure pink is in all the lines.
Two gallons in each head/flushing is plenty. But it's a good idea to check the head manufacturers recommendations and also be aware of what sort of system is in your boat. If you have waste treatment systems, you may have to run a bit more pink to ensure the treatment system gets some. The Galley maid waste treatment systems hold about 4 gallons of waste, in four separate 1gal containers that are fed in series. So just flushing two gal of pink into a head may not get pink into all four containers.
Good Luck.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Since one mistake could be very expensive, why not pay someone to do it right and be there to watch and learn for next year's winterizing? Maybe even have a video camera to record it all.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eze2bme
Since one mistake could be very expensive, why not pay someone to do it right and be there to watch and learn for next year's winterizing? Maybe even have a video camera to record it all.
Personally, I think boating is to a large degree about self sufficiency. With that concept in mind I went from being billed by a yard for 60 gallons, yeah you read that correctly, to winterize a 45' convertible to now using none and doing it all myself in just a couple hours.
This is my method and largely just pertains to me. Considering the boat is on the hard. Taking the remaining water in the domestic water tank, I attach my hose to the hose bib in the engine room and 1 open the drain valves on the exhaust risers and heat exchangers then spray considerable water into the heat exchangers through the zinc holes giving them a fresh water flush. 2 start the main engines for only the time it takes to rev up to 2300 and blow the remaining water out of the exhaust system. 3 remove the hose from the air conditioner water pump and pump a couple gallons or so through the compressors then let them drain. 4 turn a ball valve and let pressure water into the raw water pump for the genset then start genset for a couple minutes giving that heat exchanger a flush. 5 Pump out all the remaining water in the domestic water tank. 6 drain and isolate the hot water tank. 7 attach an air compressor to the dock side fresh water connection and pressurize the system while alternating between opening the faucets or other water consumers and letting the pressurized air blow the water out.
At this point I do not use a single gallon of nontoxic antifreeze. Ive been doing it this way for 5 years or so and no issues so far. Those cases of antifreeze are heavy to lug around!
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Re: First time winterizing myself
I used compressed air ONE time to blow out the fresh water system. It left enough water in a low spot to rupture a copper line. I don't do that anymore.
I have fitted winterizing tees on the sea water inlet lines of my mains, and the head. That method has worked well for seven or eight years or longer. I also winterize the Jabsco bilge pump that I use to strip the bilge- before I remove the dry dock plug in the bilge sump.
You didn't ask about this but make sure you get all the food off the boat, and leave all the lockers etc open. Also defrost the fridge, dry it out, and leave it open as well.
Make sure the hatch gutter drains are empty and dry as well. Enough water can sit in them to burst their drain lines if they are not empty and drained by gravity.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
An alternative to compressed air for the fresh water lines is to use a wet/dry shop vac to suck out the water. Work each faucet in line doing hot and cold separately. You should be able to hear or sense gurgling which will stop when all the water is gone.
Bobk
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Re: First time winterizing myself
8-53's have a 1" pipe plug on the raw water pump designed to be exchanged for a hose nipple. Pull the plug put a bronze hose nipple in, close the sea cock, attach r
The nipple to a hose in a bucket of the pink and start her up
Can't get any easier
ART
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Re: First time winterizing myself
as for the engines pull the zinc fitting on the raw water pump and put in the same size thread with a garden hose fitting on the other end. screw on your hose and put the other end in the antifreeze bucket and off you go. as for the fresh water, yes you can use a small pump at the shore connection to push water thru, remember you need to open both hot and cold sides. it sounds like you have the hot water heater figured out. as for the a/c, do you have access to the sea strainer and does it sit vertical, if it does remove the top and pour the antifreeze in while someone turns it on and waits for a pink discharge. as for the heads, I don't know what you have. mine are saltwater flush, so I winterize mine from the strainers. I have fittings where I can pump mine thru and flush the toilet until its pink, if you don't have a fitting you can go thru the strainer by pouring it in while someone else is flushing. it sounds like you are on the right track and will do just fine. in the end you will save a lot of money by doing it yourself. I don't know about your marina , but my experience has been that there is always a fellow boater hanging around willing to lend a hand or answer a question.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Thanks to everyone for all this terrific advice. I`m pretty confident I can handle this now. I do have one final question though. In my old boat, which was gas powered, they fogged the engines after winterizing. Is there something I need to do these diesels that`s similar to fogging?
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Re: First time winterizing myself
No. Never put anything in the intake of a diesel that the engine would see as fuel. It causes runaways.
I do spray the outside of my engines with some WD-40 to keep them from rusting due to condensation. But it's not a requirement.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
One thing not mentioned is to block off the exhaust and air intakes to prevent air circulation/rusting of engine internals. It also will keep critters from making homes in your exhaust hoses.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Thanks for the info on fogging and the vent and exhaust cover up. I didn't wrap the boat last year but was thinking about it this year. What are the pros and cons in everyone's opinion. It would be nice to open up a nice clean boat in the spring.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
I haven't covered my boat for the ten years I have owned it and it is just as clean in the spring as if it were. I guess that would depend on your location. I'm in Oxford Md and there is no pollution in the air.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fissioneng
One thing not mentioned is to block off the exhaust and air intakes to prevent air circulation/rusting of engine internals. It also will keep critters from making homes in your exhaust hoses.
Bad idea!!!! Someone told my dad this when we had the 34 with the gas engines. He had cedar plugs made for the exhaust. the next spring all the valves were stuck from the residual water in the exhaust.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rsmith
Bad idea!!!! Someone told my dad this when we had the 34 with the gas engines. He had cedar plugs made for the exhaust. the next spring all the valves were stuck from the residual water in the exhaust.
Two things
First it should have been antifreeze in the mufflers and he should have fogged it being gas.
Doing those two thing I have never seen stuck valves due to exhaust being plugged which boaters here do as far back as I can remember.
One other thing is if your A.C pump motor is water cooled motor like the March pumps always suck antifreeze through the pump so the little cooling tube for the motor get antifreeze into it.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
ALWAYS cover your exhaust, ive seen Detroit heads that looked liked they were hit with buckshot that cold moist air rushes in thru that exhaust and can do damage. as for the post about gas engines, there should never be residual raw water in the valves, at least not to my knowledge, I suspect it was a bad elbow. my gas boat never had water in the valve system,but my brother in law did because he failed to maintain his exhaust, and guess who got stuck putting new motors in ha ha. if it was a raw water cooled engine then it might not have been winterized correctly. either way it was an unfortunate situation for the owner. I always use the 100% winter-ban for just that reason, residual water in one of my systems it is a bit more expensive, but it is an insurance policy for me good luck
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Re: First time winterizing myself
I too have not used shrink wrap on my boats in recent years. I never quite understood the benefit of covering plastic with plastic. More importantly, I found that in the process of putting the shrink wrap on and taking it off, the yard always ended up bending or breaking something. So far so good with no shrink wrap. I do check the boats every week which should be done whether covered or not.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Thank you one and all for the great advice I always get here. I've occasionally seen other boat forums but never one where the members are so active and so willing to share there knowledge. I count my lucky stars I bought my first Hatteras 8 years ago and not that Silverton.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Good post everyone... I have owned my Hatteras now going on 5 years, and have never winterized. Living in Virginia, it gets cold, but the best fishing in the Bay is when it is the coldest, so I run the boat year round. I use two oil filled heaters that look like the old steam heaters in older homes. One in the engine room and one in the lower area, positioned between the head and the galley. So far no issues..
This winter however, will be different. I just accepted a year long assignment in Saudi Arabia and will be leaving in two weeks. This means I will have to put the boat on the hard and have it winterized. I will likely be gone for year or longer.
My real question is about the GAS. Yes gas, I have an older 36C with Marine Power 454's. They run great.
Do I store the boat with tanks full and load them up with fuel stabilizer, or spend the money and have the tanks drained, as well as the gas lines and filters on the engine? I have been burning gas with ethanol, as i burn it out so fast, the ethanol has not been an issue.
My wife says that I should try and sell the boat and get a larger one with I come back... I really do not want to do that as I have now become very attached to this one. Rebuilding for five years, everything now works and works well.
Although after sitting on the hard for a year, maybe longer, I do not know how much more will have to be fixed with it is finally time to go back in the water.
The yard where I plan to put the boat also suggested shrink wrap. I would like to hear more opinions on shrink-wrapping boat for long term storage. Most of the boats around her are wrapped for the winter.
Thoughts please..... any other suggestions for long term storage?
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Re shrink wrap, you need to keep the sheet from touching the Imron or you risk some peeling paint.
I think I'd get rid of the gas and run some aviation gas through the system. It is very stable and should be ready to go when you return. Adding stabilizer to E10 will not prevent the alcohol from sucking in water and you will likely have to deal with it when you return.
Bobk
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobk
Re shrink wrap, you need to keep the sheet from touching the Imron or you risk some peeling paint.
I think I'd get rid of the gas and run some aviation gas through the system. It is very stable and should be ready to go when you return. Adding stabilizer to E10 will not prevent the alcohol from sucking in water and you will likely have to deal with it when you return.
Bobk
Great Idea with the Aviation gas! empty as much as possible then add it and run it fog the hell out it do the winterizing.
As Bob said about the shrink wrap spot on for any paint doesn't matter brand. I have done it for the past 3 years learned a lot of tricks I can share if you like. Just going away later today till the 2nd of Dec so pm me then if you want some tips and pics. Your 36 will actually be a little easier then my 34C because the difference in the front deck but the tips will still work for you. I would wrap it and also add lots of vents when you come back it will still be pretty clean and be as you left it.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kim Beatley
Good post everyone... I have owned my Hatteras now going on 5 years, and have never winterized. Living in Virginia, it gets cold, but the best fishing in the Bay is when it is the coldest, so I run the boat year round. I use two oil filled heaters that look like the old steam heaters in older homes. One in the engine room and one in the lower area, positioned between the head and the galley. So far no issues..
This winter however, will be different. I just accepted a year long assignment in Saudi Arabia and will be leaving in two weeks. This means I will have to put the boat on the hard and have it winterized. I will likely be gone for year or longer.
My real question is about the GAS. Yes gas, I have an older 36C with Marine Power 454's. They run great.
Do I store the boat with tanks full and load them up with fuel stabilizer, or spend the money and have the tanks drained, as well as the gas lines and filters on the engine? I have been burning gas with ethanol, as i burn it out so fast, the ethanol has not been an issue.
My wife says that I should try and sell the boat and get a larger one with I come back... I really do not want to do that as I have now become very attached to this one. Rebuilding for five years, everything now works and works well.
Although after sitting on the hard for a year, maybe longer, I do not know how much more will have to be fixed with it is finally time to go back in the water.
The yard where I plan to put the boat also suggested shrink wrap. I would like to hear more opinions on shrink-wrapping boat for long term storage. Most of the boats around her are wrapped for the winter.
Thoughts please..... any other suggestions for long term storage?
Do you still have the original fiberglass tanks and are using gas with ethanol? I don't think it matters how fast you burn it, the ethanol will break down the tank. A few things to think about. Storing the tanks empty will create more of an explosion or fire risk. It's the fuel vapors that are the problem not the fuel alone. Empty tanks will be full of fuel vapor. Do you have someone who can regularly check on the boat and address any problems that might arise? You also want someone checking in on her regularly so others see activity. A boat sitting unattended is a target for theft. You mentioned that you will be gone for at least one year, could that end up being much longer? I know you don't want to hear this but I think your wife is right. Sell it now and find another one when you get back. Far too many issues with leaving the boat unattended and not used.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
I too have a gasser and when the season is over I leave whatever gas is left in the tank there. I don't add any or pump out any, just add the recommended amount of Startron conditioner to tank. The boat starts right up in the spring and I have never had any problems with ethanol. I have been doing this for 10 years and my engines run great. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beckytek
I too have a gasser and when the season is over I leave whatever gas is left in the tank there. I don't add any or pump out any, just add the recommended amount of Startron conditioner to tank. The boat starts right up in the spring and I have never had any problems with ethanol. I have been doing this for 10 years and my engines run great. Just my 2 cents.
But you're only leaving her for a few months. I know the older '60s and '70s Hatts have been having issues with ethanol. Curious if the same applies to later model boats. When I had gas boats I've stored them with and without full tanks but never with the tanks below 3/4 or so. When I had my 46C re-powered I brought the boat into the yard when the yard was closed. They were supposed to top off the tanks before they hauled it but forgot. Cockpit tanks were low and the following spring I had water in the tank that was on the sunny side of the boat. Only time I had water in any of the tanks.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
I know this is getting off topic but I think you're flirting with danger and might want to reconsider the ethanol gas and your fiberglass tanks. I had to replace the tanks in my former Hatteras, a 1967 34 dc with 426 Chrysler's, six years ago because they were starting to break down. I was told the valves would start sticking and eventually ruin the engines. I think there's enough information out there about this to warrant consideration. I went to aluminum for a total cost of about $4000 back then. Maybe they improved the tanks in the later models but 2 new engines will be mighty expensive regardless of the year.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jerseyboy
I know this is getting off topic but I think you're flirting with danger and might want to reconsider the ethanol gas and your fiberglass tanks. I had to replace the tanks in my former Hatteras, a 1967 34 dc with 426 Chrysler's, six years ago because they were starting to break down. I was told the valves would start sticking and eventually ruin the engines. I think there's enough information out there about this to warrant consideration. I went to aluminum for a total cost of about $4000 back then. Maybe they improved the tanks in the later models but 2 new engines will be mighty expensive regardless of the year.
This is the point I was trying to make. I know the tank issue doesn't apply to all fiberglass tanks, it's resin specific. Slane makes fiberglass replacement tanks that are fine with ethanol. Does anyone know if this problem is model/year specific? I don't know for sure but I don't think it's a problem on Bertrams which I believe also have fiberglass tanks.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jerseyboy
Thank you one and all for the great advice I always get here. I've occasionally seen other boat forums but never one where the members are so active and so willing to share there knowledge. I count my lucky stars I bought my first Hatteras 8 years ago and not that Silverton.
There are many reasons other than this forum why you should be happy you bought a Hatt instead of a Silverton. It sounds like you got the winterizing under control. Most important thing is to be sure you have enough concentrated antifreeze in the systems you're working with. I should be down your way next week or the week after. I'm heading to Grants for the winter. Any issues or concerns coming into Barnegat and crossing the Bay?
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Re: First time winterizing myself
I had the fiberglass tanks replaced 4 years ago with Aluminum. Based on what I have read below, still do not know if I should just fill them and put in stabilizer, or pump dry? I will shrink wrap the boat....
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kim Beatley
I had the fiberglass tanks replaced 4 years ago with Aluminum. Based on what I have read below, still do not know if I should just fill them and put in stabilizer, or pump dry? I will shrink wrap the boat....
Fill them. The gas vapors will be very high if the tanks are empty.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Bertrams DO have the same problem; that is, ethanol attacks their old FRP tanks also.
Kim, you are talking about 250 gallons of avgas which even if you could get it to the boat would cost you a fortune. (I use avgas to lay up my mower and motorcycle but we're only talking a few gallons in those)
I think I would pump out all the ethanol fuel, add ten gallons of avgas to each tank, and stabilizer, and run the engines and fog them down. I would definitely shrink wrap the boat. I admit this leaves a large air space in each tank, but it does avoid the issue of ethanol in the fuel path.
It's hard to sell a boat you like. Besides, who knows what will be available when you return? And you shouldn't sell your boat in a hurry. If you decide to move up to a larger boat, there's plenty of time to do that when you come back.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
If he has aluminum tanks what harm will there be leaving them full with ethanol gas? The AVgas sounds like a good idea for the remainder of the fuel system. Are there additional concerns with using ethanol fuels?
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Ethanol is hydroscopic and dries seals and o rings. It's not great for any tank and If a bunch of water gets in an aluminum tank it can do some damage.
If you have not been using ethanol free fuel you may have issues. It has been found in florida that some fuel was up to 40% ethanol. Too bad I didn't know before I blew the engine in my car on that crap.
If you can fill it with ethanol free fuel. Its slightly more expensive here but not the cost of av gas. If you have e10 you need to treat it properly. I also add a few ounces of 100:1 amsoil 2 cycle to my motorcycle tank to keep the rubber parts supple.
When you winterize the engines you may want to use a small fuel tank with ethanol free fuel and run the old stuff out before you winterize. It will allow less crud to form in the carb.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Saltshaker the inlet is fine and the bay is clear now and well marked at least around the lighthouse and across the bay but there are some shallow spots. My alarm went off a couple of times when I wandered to the outside edge of the Oyster Creek channel on my way to Waretown and Holiday Harbor to be hauled for the winter. This is a particularly shallow area and high tide is really a must and I went through at only about 7 knots.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jerseyboy
Saltshaker the inlet is fine and the bay is clear now and well marked at least around the lighthouse and across the bay but there are some shallow spots. My alarm went off a couple of times when I wandered to the outside edge of the Oyster Creek channel on my way to Waretown and Holiday Harbor to be hauled for the winter. This is a particularly shallow area and high tide is really a must and I went through at only about 7 knots.
How shallow? I draw 5'4". I may be going to Holiday Harbor. I don't think their lift is big enough but the owner says he can handle my boat. Grant was supposed to haul me but today he informed me that my boat is too big for them to handle. He thought he could do but after talking to a guy who runs a lift and is familiar with hauling a 65C he said he wasn't comfortable doing it.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Jack you should be okay as long as you're at high tide. My dock mates trawler draws about what you do and he can get across. Best give Butch or Barbara a call at Holiday Harbor to confirm. 609.693.2217. They don't haul on one day of the week. I think it's Wednesday. Good luck
Greg
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Re: First time winterizing myself
I have a bunch of gas boats and equipment. I usually try to store them over the winter with as little as possible and just top off with fresh gas come spring time. I put stabil in...I guess it works? I've rebuilt lots of carbs over the years. The new gas plus stabil seems to work fine.
My go-fast boat sat for 3+ years. I just topped off the tank after I rebuilt the engine. Carbs needed rebuilding anyway. I didn't get them done this summer, winter project.
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3 Attachment(s)
Re: First time winterizing myself/ Anti-Freeze Pump
I have attached some photos of my pump rig for pumping anti-freeze (red(pink)=-50F, blue=-100F) into my systems and engines, plus for oil change pumping. I have now been using this for 5 years, as a major upgrade from other pumps. E.g., it has metal gears, instead of rubber impellers that go bad.
The pump is overkill for anti-freeze, but pumps out 40wgt oil without any effort. It is a combination Baldour motor/Obendorfer pump, originally used for restaurant grease pumping. Downside is that it weighs about 50#'s (oomph), which is why the mounting board has two handles.
I have a set of fittings and hoses made up for the various systems:
1) fresh water pump-in at shore water bib,
2) Pump blue pop into oil cooler hose (I install an aux. hose, plugged off, where I pull off the oil cooler hose), thence to HE and out the exhaust, Note: I leave raw water impeller cover on, during pumping, then remove it from over the impellers and the fresh water mixed with blue pop falls out past the impellers. Eventually I pull the impellers.
3) Pump blue pop through the Onan Genset, after first pulling the impeller and re-installing the impeller cover.
4) Pump blue pop through A/C heads. I pull off the hose after the AC pump. The pump water falls out of strainer can.
5) Pump red (pink) pop through the various fresh water outlets, sinks, showers, etc. Note: this boat is fitted with a valve just above the FW tank inlet, and when opened, shore water (red pop) flows into the water tank.
6) I pour red pop into the toilets and flush them.
7) I have a set of plugs made up that fit the exhausts, and after blue pop comes out the exhausts, in go the plugs.
8) Oil Changes: I now have permanently attached hoses to the oil drains, under the mains (6-71N's), which have themselves (the drains) been fitted with on/off valves, in replacement of the pan plugs. The hoses are fitted at the ends with on/off ball valves.
Other actions:
9) Pull the brass plugs from the AC and Genset water strainers and allow them to drain
10) Open the RW intake valves at both the mains, AC and Genset and drop residual water; re-close as desired.
11) Clean the strainers, as necessary.
12) Drop the water from the hot water tank drain, close drain, switch the valves to force red pop in (see above)
13) Open the drain at the water pressure system bottle, drain off any water.
12) Vacuum out all stray water from all the bilge areas.
The winterizing process now goes pretty quickly with this rig, as it pumps fast. Also, the oil draining goes quickly.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
I decided to just take boat to marina and let the yard do the winterizing. If you let them buy materials and they do the work, they guarantee their work and anything broken, due to freezing or sitting up over the winter, they will fix when you put the boat back into the water. May cost a few more dollars, but no more worries.
Their chief mechanic recommended that we run the boat as much as possible, draining the fuel tanks down as low as possible. They will then fill with non-ethnal gas and stabilize.
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Re: First time winterizing myself
Did anyone get their pump yet?
Art
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Re: First time winterizing myself