freeing stuck seacock

Hi, all. I've been in the process of trying to buy a 55c and just completed survey & seatrial. The boat's been neglected on a lot of regular monthly type maintenance, and as a result there are 2 seacocks that the surveyor flagged that were stuck in the open position. Obviously not a good position for safety and something that would have to be cured posthaste.

I know that Vaseline is a decent lube to use for one that you can access in the closed position with the hose removed, but is there a way to free one up that's stuck open? Clearly it's a non-starter to try to remove the hose to access the inner ball. I have to confess that I've never had to take one apart (other than replacing handles a couple of times), and I've never had to deal with one totally seized.

Any help would be appreciated. If I went further in pursuing this boat, I'd really not want to have to haul again just to rehab seacocks, but if that's what it takes then that's what it takes.

Which seacocks are they? The larger they are, the harder they are to move. The 2.5" seacocks on my mains are TOUGH. I use a hollow steel bar, cheater bar, over the handle on the seacock to move them back and forth. On one of my haulouts, I had these serviced, and they are still difficult to move and require a cheater bar no matter how much they are greased. I bought two new ones that are onboard for my next haulout. Guess what? I can't move those either!

If you have enough room to work a cheater bar, you should be able to free them up. With the exception of the two mains and the AC pump, I freed all of mine in this fashion and have been able to operate them by hand ever since. I couldn't do the AC pump seacock for lack of accessibility, so I replaced that one.

All that said, be mindful that you could break them off when using a cheater bar and a lot of force, especially if electrolysis has gotten to them. :)

Two of the three are the big main engine ones, and the other is one of the a/c raw water feeds. Yeah, like you I'm leery of putting too much force to the handle with the trusty old cheater bar.

The good news is with that outstanding ER access that the 55c has (I truly COVET that engine room), it's no problem to be standing right over the seacock in question to work on it. I guess I was hoping against hope that maybe trying to penetrate the daylights out of the external body of the valve with something like PB Blaster might make way for just enough give to safely start articulating it with a LITTLE bit of cheater bar leverage.

Thanks for your input, Ang.

What really needs to happen is that boat has to come out, you remove the hose, and then spray some PB Blaster down in there.

That'll free it up.

The problem with using a big cheater bar is that if you snap something off you're really screwed, especially with the big ones.

I wouldn't do it with the boat in the water.

This is not one of those things you want to say "aw shit!" about.......

I can gaurantee that mine werent moved for 32 years before I bought the sub, and every one of them are now operating.
Heres the trick. Percussion. Brass on brass will corrode but never sieze. You have to remember that the handles are brass and usually pretty loose on the stem. Next step is elbows and buttocks...
With a 3lb dead blow hammer, hold the handle tight in the direction it needs to move and try to gently persuade it (that means TAP it!! ). It will probably go. If not, hold the slack in the handle the opposite direction and repeat. Once broken free, it may need to be tapped full cycle. After that, if you move it several cycles, it should feel like new, honest.
After you close it you can pull the hose and PB it if you want, but that is chasing the horse after she left the barn. FWIW. I have 17 seacocks and can move them all by hand now. I would use EXTREME prudence with a bar !! ws

Hammer and vibration is the way to go instead of a bar....just like an impact gun can sometimes get a nut off without breaking the bolt. Air chisels are very useful at times like this too.

After the surveyor found a frozen seacock, the PO managed to break 2 of the cast bronze handles using a cheater bar and then told me it was free. Unfortunately I was too sick with intestinal flu to check it before we launched. It is still frozen. I think I will wait until next year's haulout. I am nervous about the below WL hoses and coolers on that engine.
Has anyone managed to buy replacement handles? Maybe direct from Groco?
Gary

Thanks for the help, guys...and Ang.

Gary, I was able to purchase replacement handles for one of my smaller Groco's through West marine, it was $4-5 I think. It worked fine.

Another idea to consider. Remove the quarter inch drain plug and replace it with a grease fitting. Get a tube of water proof boat trailer wheel bearing grease and a grease gun. Pump her up each day for 3 or 4 days and then start trying to move it a little at a time. Give her a pump a day for maybe 10 days and keep working the handle. Only get one side of the ball, but has been enough for me in several cases.

Pete

I agree with the percussion method of breaking them loose. however no one has mentioned the fact that seacocks are a normal maintenance item. if yours are as bad as you say disassemble the whole thing and get some valve lapping compound, reassemble with the compound in place and proceed to operate the plug to clean up/true up the fit between the body and the plug. when your happy with the condition of the meeting faces, disassemble, clean everything thoroughly and reassemble, liberally greasing it with 3M silicone paste. tighten until you have to apply moderate pressure to move the plug. but don't forget they have to be greased every year.

Uh, on the maintenance thing, that depends on the seacock.

There are two types - "taper" ones which are as you describe, and the newer style (which are on most Hatts from the 80s and almost anything newer) which are a stainless ball riding in a teflon seat.

The latter MUST NEVER have lapping compound put in them or they will NEVER seal again. They are ball valves internally.

What usually screws up the latter type are "things" growing in there, not corrosion.

Note that the newer ones, once the sealing surface is damaged, will always leak when closed from that point forward. Some can be disassembled but whether you can realistically fix them is another matter; the usual "fix" is replacement.

Genesis
after reading your reply to my "maintenance'' reply i realized the thread was about ball valves and not bronze on bronze tapered plug type valves. i will still maintain that even ball valves need servicing though, and that is frequent exercising of the valve through simply operating the valve. thanks for making me aware i was going off on my own little tangent.

My engine seacocks are 2.5 " Magnizium bronze with Stainless steel balls and a teflon bearing. They were frozen. Used a medium hammer to tap on the housing and a 30" pipe to gently free em up. Worked well. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to lube them with? Thanks!

Both of my port and starboard sea cocks were frozen solid when I purchased my 53MY. I tried and tried to free them by hand with no luck. I was reluctant to get in there with a hammer or mallet and it is real cumbersome to get a pipe on it. In the end I decided to add this to “the list” of fixes that I plan to do when I haul the boat for a pressure washing and bottom paint. As winter set in I started growing more concerned about those stuck sea cocks. So I decided to try one more time, would you believe it a 5 year old could turn both of them with 2 fingers! I can only assume it was the cold!? After all it was December and the water temperature at the time was very close to freezing.

For what it’s worth, you might be able to place a few bags of ice around a stuck or frozen seacock and call it a day.

Genesis post # 12 is right on.

In addition, there is little reason to fret about seacocks that don't close for a season or two..as long as you are NOT in a freezing climate in the water during the winter......the chances of anything going wrong that would happen to be 'cured" by closing a seacock handle are miniscule.

Depending on your boat and the depth below sea level of the intakes, a typical intake hose stuck straight up inside will not admit water...if it does, keep some wooden plugs of various sizes available....you can always cut off an intake hose a foot above a seacock and stick a wooden plug in to seal it temporarily although I can't think of anything likely that might happen to require such a fix. Another alternative: keep a length of hose available to "extend" an intake hose up higher if desired...find a size PVC that fits inside...you can even use a reducer style PVC, or makea PVC "cap" to seal off a hose if you like. (I don't recommend any of these as necessary, but if you sleep better, go for it.)

For TAPER type seacocks, loosen the nut (If I recall there may be a nut and a locknut, so loosen both) on the opposite side of the seacock from the handle...the smaller diameter end of the taper plug is by the nut...tap the nut lightly toward the handle to push the plug from its stuck position...if it's stubborn, tap on a piece of wood to prevent burling the nut on the thread and making later disassembly difficult...then snug up just enough to stop a dripping....
turn the handle to healp seat the plug....next time you are hauled out, remove the taper plug and use one of the greases mentioned already... waterpump grease is one suitable type...

When hauled out: As a last resort, after loosening the nut, applying some heat with a propane torch to expand the seacock and help break the corrosion bond can also help...the idea is the heat the seacock housing a bit and cause it to expand slightly...I'm NOT talking cherry red here, that is WAAAAAAAY too much....

Waterpump grease should be safe to use with any type underwater seacocks. Anywater water resistant ,thick lubricant, which will tend to stay in place should be ok....

Seacocks that do close but don't seal all the way can be a problem when you have to winterize. Depending on you get antifreeze in there, it will blow out the seacock end if not closed and/or sealed all the way. That is why I am replacing mine this year.

I've got a few big sea cocks that are real difficult to open or close and one in particular that has a hose in the way. I've got this cool little tool that works really well. It's got slots so you can leverege the handle from two positions. I just store the tool on the valve handle. Can't remember where I got it but if you google "seacock helper" it should turn up. Pretty handy for little money. thanks.

"Seacock Helper"

http://www.topshelfmarine.com/produc...1c0f6b1671dc6c

I called the manufacturer after I replaced one of my main engine seacocks with a brand new one and it was damn near impossible to move! I finally got hold of someone there, who admitted, that when they assemble them, if the guy tightens up the guts too much, it will never loosen up. So before you buy, check it out if possible.

I just use the hammer and the cheater bar, but now it won't shut off the water all the way. :(

Captned