End of Life??

As an observation, I wonder if we are seeing the end of life for early larger fiberglass boats. Non Hatteras hulls with plywood encapsulated stringers appear to be in a category themselves that self destruct as the stringers are no longer functional both engine and hull support. I have seen a couple of boats with this problem and there appears to be no economically wise fix for the problem. So, these just seem to sit and rot further both on the water and in the bone yard. Ignore the whole situation seems to be the reaction of choice by owners once the expense of recycling are understood.

Hatteras early boats are a different situation, as the early hulls, including stringers seem to have no self destruct weakness. From my observations, the problem appears to be impacting the largest of the boats first. At the risk of over generalizing, it appears as these boats get older and older those that can afford to upkeep them also have the means and desire to own something newer. Those that can purchase the boats, sometimes with a financial stretch, soon discover the expense associated with such ownership, and stop trying to do the proper maintenance. As the purchase price of these older, larger Hatteras decreases and decreases they seem to fall into the hands of the overly optimistic less experienced owners, soon to be overwhelmed.

While I am generalizing, I will also observe that motor yachts are more prone to this end of life serenio and also boats in excess of 60 feet or so, seem most likely to be a subject. If my memory serves me, I believe it was the early seventies when Hatteras first started producing boats 70 feet and above, almost 50 years ago.

As for the smaller Hatteras, elder boats, these appear more manageable to maintain by those who always dreamed of owning one, and having good mechanical skills.

Other thoughts on the subject are most welcome.

Pete

Maybe thats why so many owners dont do much to prepare for storms...let nature takes its course :)

I'm sure the builders intended the stringers to last as long as the boat. I just don't think they expected the boats to last as long as they did.

Structurally if the stringers don't rot there's no limit to how long they can be used unless they take such a beating they break loose the stringers and bulkhead.

Hatteras may have gotten lucky with the hollow stringer system as boats lasted longer or may hVe shot themselves in the foot by lowereing sales to replace failing boats.

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Originally Posted by Pascal

Maybe thats why so many owners dont do much to prepare for storms...let nature takes its course :)

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Perhaps the reason insurance companies decline to insure elder large boats?

Pete

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Originally Posted by Boatsb

I'm sure the builders intended the stringers to last as long as the boat. I just don't think they expected the boats to last as long as they did.

Structurally if the stringers don't rot there's no limit to how long they can be used unless they take such a beating they break loose the stringers and bulkhead.

Hatteras may have gotten lucky with the hollow stringer system as boats lasted longer or may hVe shot themselves in the foot by lowereing sales to replace failing boats.

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Jersey has always been the junk boat building Mecca. Light cheap and appeal to the women is their motto.

Just because you want to appeal to women you doesn't mean your light and cheap!

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Originally Posted by rsmith

Jersey has always been the junk boat building Mecca. Light cheap and appeal to the women is their motto.

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As the prior owner of one, AMEN. One is more than enough. I believe Hatteras DID it right, no luck involved. Not to say Hatteras got everything perfect!

Pete

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Originally Posted by Glory

Just because you want to appeal to women you doesn't mean your light and cheap!

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Who says?

I was not aware that Hatteras ever used stringer material, other than Fiberglas. I have seen Bertrams with wood engine stringers, but never a Hatt. Hatts have solid fiberglass hulls, although a very few Hatts had cored hulls, but that experiment stopped quickly, I believe.

So I did not understand any correlation between stringer issues on old Hatts and lowered prices. Now bad coring all over in a Hatt and price hits- that's a major other question!

A friend of mine had a very nice (Searay?), but with water soaked stringers. It was repaired for an entire summer, before it dried out (somewhat), plus had epoxy inserted. Finally sold (ran away from) the boat.

I talked to a yard manager about a big yacht with bad wood stringers, and it was "totaled"- worth less than the cost of the repair work. Can you say chain saw heaven?

Worst of the worst- some/many Bayliners, including the big 47 footer, were chopper gunned. I saw one in person, that was going down, but snatched up in the slings, saving it. Four months later I got a good look, when the Yard Manager pointed out a void in the hull just below the waterline. No fiberlass, but only gelcoat- the size of my forearm!!

I have a friend who has a 4588 Bayliner and before he bought it it was lifted out for survey on a narrow travel lift and it crushed the rails in all the way to the inside of the boat. Buyer ran away and my friend bought it for $50,000 and repaired it himself. Scary!!!

Foam and steel.The only 2 materials I know of in hatt stringers.

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Originally Posted by Boatsb

Foam and steel.The only 2 materials I know of in hatt stringers.

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Not clear on the "foam and steel" remark. The foam in and around the Hatt stringers was there as a "form" for the shaping of the stringers. After the resin set up, the foam stayed around for the ride, but served no other post-production purpose, AFAIK.

The long beds sitting on the stringers in my Hatt seem to be very heavy aluminum. The engine mounts, on those beds, are steel, I will admit.

As to the above, earlier remarks about smaller older Hatts with handy owners- that would be me! "If the women can't find you handsome, they better find you handy!" (ok, Red Green)

Love the red green quote.

Inside the stringers in the engine beds are steel runners that the bolts from the aluminum stringer caps screw into.

If you undo the bolts the aluminum caps come off.

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Originally Posted by spartonboat1

Not clear on the "foam and steel" remark. The foam in and around the Hatt stringers was there as a "form" for the shaping of the stringers. After the resin set up, the foam stayed around for the ride, but served no other post-production purpose, AFAIK.

As to the above, earlier remarks about smaller older Hatts with handy owners- that would be me! "If the women can't find you handsome, they better find you handy!" (ok, Red Green)

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Of.course it serves a purpose. Without the foam you wouldn't have "That Hatteras Smell."

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritai!

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Originally Posted by Boatsb

Love the red green quote.

Inside the stringers in the engine beds are steel runners that the bolts from the aluminum stringer caps screw into.

If you undo the bolts the aluminum caps come off.

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Ok, gotta ask. What's up with the galvanic corrosion factor, when bolting the Aluminum Cap to the Steel beds with steel bolts. I have a 1972 and you would think that boats this age would have some form of galvanic corrosion between these two metals, unless some type non-metallic washer limited the steel bolt contact with the aluminum stringer cap.

Responses?

"That Hatteras smell" clearly provide some sort of barrier coat protection between the dissimilar metals. :p

This is in direct response to spartonboats1 call for responses re galvanic corrosion between and the alum engine rails. Not an issue. I repowered my 1975 31' EC in 2010 to 8.1L Crudaders and had to remove the engine rails for mods. The original bolts were indeed carbon steel with steel washers. I assume they were galvanised, but in 2010 they were just rust color. All bolts were in good shape and were removed without breakage. There was no evidence of pitting in the rails. I believe it is "area ratio" that makes this combo work, along with the fact that these rails are not immersed, after all. "Area ratio" here is the key. All those alum work boats have winches etc bolted with steel. Stainless is used so it stays pretty, but galvanised will last years without the rust. I used stainless on reinstall and gave the rails a nice paint job (bare from factory). They are very pretty now!l

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Originally Posted by GaryNW

This is in direct response to spartonboats1 call for responses re galvanic corrosion between and the alum engine rails. Not an issue. I repowered my 1975 31' EC in 2010 to 8.1L Crudaders and had to remove the engine rails for mods. The original bolts were indeed carbon steel with steel washers. I assume they were galvanised, but in 2010 they were just rust color. All bolts were in good shape and were removed without breakage. There was no evidence of pitting in the rails. I believe it is "area ratio" that makes this combo work, along with the fact that these rails are not immersed, after all. "Area ratio" here is the key. All those alum work boats have winches etc bolted with steel. Stainless is used so it stays pretty, but galvanised will last years without the rust. I used stainless on reinstall and gave the rails a nice paint job (bare from factory). They are very pretty now!l

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Great update and thanks. Yes, the galvanized fastener may well be better, due to the effect of the galvanizing "capturing" some of the galvanic action, plus, as you mention, the area ratio factor.

Interestingly, SS is only rust resistance in the presence of air. The air maintains the oxide surface. When in an anaerobic environment, the SS oxide surface dissipates and they are subject to rust. Sail-boaters know this, as their SS fittings will snap after time, at the interface between two SS fittings. This is where they wear out, since the oxide wears away (I think I am 50% right on that).

It's my understanding that in a damp environment, SS is less hospitable to aluminum. Plain steel is friendlier to aluminum than SS.

"Hot dipped" galvanized steel holds up very well around saltwater. Electroplated or drum rolled zinc fasteners do not last. The trick is a freshwater washdown to remove any salt and, zinc is self healing. Painting can cause crevice corrosion. Use Never-Seez Mariners Choice when making contact with any other metals including washers and nuts. The problem nowadays is finding quality hot dipped galvanized products.