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Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
It's official. Our 1975 36 convertible is in the hands of its new owner. Now it's time to get serious about the next one.
We are looking for a 1989 or newer 46 - 50'. I know the 45s are very popular, but the Admiral wants a galley that is not directly in the companionway, so that leaves the 46-50.
I would prefer Cat power, but am open to Detroits as well.
I have been browsing Yachtworld, but was wondering if there are any others out there that are not listed.
If you are familiar with any of the ones on Yachtworld, I would be interested in comments on them as well.
I did see the 50C on here that had been repowered with C18s, but thats a little above what I want to spend.
Thanks,
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Congrats and good luck with your search. The 50C series III would be my choice by far. The newer ones with 3406 Cats are the best package IMO. Good ones were selling in the low to mid 300's and up. If a 54C w/ 3412 Cats works that would be my first choice. I almost bought this one back in 8/10. She's back on the market and the current owner has taken great care maintaining and upgrading her. Tons of money spent on custom work by the previous owner. Price is great for what she is.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=39704&url=
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Nice boat but it kooks like it has the maple interior not popular.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Red Hatt
Nice boat but it kooks like it has the maple interior not popular.
Almost all the 54C's have the light wood interiors. Unfortunately, if you want a Hatt from the early to late '90's that's how most of them came. Not my choice either but considering everything else this boat offers, I'd be OK with it. She is much nicer than the pics show.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
saltshaker
Congrats and good luck with your search. The 50C series III would be my choice by far. The newer ones with 3406 Cats are the best package IMO. Good ones were selling in the low to mid 300's and up. If a 54C w/ 3412 Cats works that would be my first choice. I almost bought this one back in 8/10. She's back on the market and the current owner has taken great care maintaining and upgrading her. Tons of money spent on custom work by the previous owner. Price is great for what she is.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=39704&url=
I agree that the 50C with 3406Es would be the best option for us. There was one listed about a year ago, but we weren't ready to pull the trigger as we still had the 36. If I remember right it was on the east coast and the name was "Sea Trader" I haven't seen one on the market in a while.
I do like the looks of that 54, and that would be my second choice if we weren't using it on the Illinois River for now. We are really limited by dock availability and draft.
We'll keep looking, but would like to have one for next spring.
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
If draft is an issue, all of these boats might not work for you. The 48C, 50C and 54C all draw just over 5ft. There don't seem to be too many good 50C w/3406 Cats and priced right but they do come up. The 50C is a great boat and if it's what you want, it's worth holding out for until you find the right one. FYI the first Cat powered 54C was a custom order in '92. That boat was bought new with 12V92's and the buyer had Hatteras swap out the power for the 3412's. That boat was up on the Illinois River. Hatt didn't start offering the Cats as an option until '94.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
saltshaker
If draft is an issue, all of these boats might not work for you. The 48C, 50C and 54C all draw just over 5ft. There don't seem to be too many good 50C w/3406 Cats and priced right but they do come up. The 50C is a great boat and if it's what you want, it's worth holding out for until you find the right one. FYI the first Cat powered 54C was a custom order in '92. That boat was bought new with 12V92's and the buyer had Hatteras swap out the power for the 3412's. That boat was up on the Illinois River. Hatt didn't start offering the Cats as an option until '94.
I am familiar with the 54 that was up here. I was working in the Marine Division at Cat at that time. I think we could make a 50 work here, but the 54 would be a stretch.
As for the draft, the 46 would be the best option at 4'6". There is one in the Boston area, but I am a little leary of that one as the shafts and props have been replaced. Sounds like it may have run aground hard sometime in the past
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blaine Thorpe
I am familiar with the 54 that was up here. I was working in the Marine Division at Cat at that time. I think we could make a 50 work here, but the 54 would be a stretch.
As for the draft, the 46 would be the best option at 4'6". There is one in the Boston area, but I am a little leary of that one as the shafts and props have been replaced. Sounds like it may have run aground hard sometime in the past
Blaine
Wait for the right 50C. The 46C series III was not one of Hatts better boats. Not many around and not easy to sell.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
What about the 50 that is right up the river from you in Michigan City?
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Carver370
What about the 50 that is right up the river from you in Michigan City?
We looked at that one about a year ago. Very nice boat, but for that money, I would prefer to have the 3406Es.
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
These seem to be rather rare. I found a few 50Cs on YW that had C18s, which I think is a variant of the 3406E, but non advertised with 3406Es. Interestingly, several had 3408Es, you can see from the engine room photos that the access to them is not as easy as it would be with 3406s.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
There's a freshwater/indoor winter kept 48c on yachtworld that is original and could use updating, but appears to be in beautiful condition.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim rosenthal
These seem to be rather rare. I found a few 50Cs on YW that had C18s, which I think is a variant of the 3406E, but non advertised with 3406Es. Interestingly, several had 3408Es, you can see from the engine room photos that the access to them is not as easy as it would be with 3406s.
The 3406E were an option starting around '99 and a very popular one. The C18's are based on the 3406 block but weren't available in the 50C. If you're seeing them out there they're either repowered or the listings are wrong. There are only a few with the 3408s. Interesting to see a couple of them out there right now. A few of the early 50C III's had 8V92's. 12V71's were common then the 12V92's, MTU 12V183's and finally 3412E Cats. A very tight ER with any of the 12's. The 3412 boats can hit almost 40kts! There were some serious hull problems with the first 3412 boats. Too much power and weight for the hull. I was told the cycle loading with the added weight and speed was too much for the original hull. The later hulls are supposed to be better.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Maybe it's just wishfull thinking, but I was trying to stay under 300K. I know I have seen them out there before at that or lower, but none right now.
Cat didn't offer the 3408 Marine engine for very long. The top rating was 800 hp, same as the 3406E, and it was about 200 lbs heavier.
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
krush
There's a freshwater/indoor winter kept 48c on yachtworld that is original and could use updating, but appears to be in beautiful condition.
I have that one in the back of my mind. Looks like a niceboat, and not that far away. Easy trip, we just did most of it on the way to Destin back in October
I haven't heard much about the 48s, good or bad.
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blaine Thorpe
Maybe it's just wishfull thinking, but I was trying to stay under 300K. I know I have seen them out there before at that or lower, but none right now.
Cat didn't offer the 3408 Marine engine for very long. The top rating was 800 hp, same as the 3406E, and it was about 200 lbs heavier.
Blaine
Under 300K is doable for the early 3406 boats. There were a few out there and there will be again. There were a couple that sold under 300K but not much less. FYI the 48C is a great boat, it's what the 50C is based on. There were some issues with the stringer system but I think that was only the first year. They are heavy and thirsty boats with the 8V92's.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Didn't the early 50Cs have a stability problem with higher horsepower engines? I recall being told of this at some point, but can't remember the details.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
saltshaker
FYI the 48C is a great boat, it's what the 50C is based on. There were some issues with the stringer system but I think that was only the first year. They are heavy and thirsty boats with the 8V92's.
Thanks, I will keep that in mind. I am not in any hurry right now. As next spring and summer approach, we'll may have to make a decision on what's available.
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim rosenthal
Didn't the early 50Cs have a stability problem with higher horsepower engines? I recall being told of this at some point, but can't remember the details.
No they are great sea boats, one of the best Hatt built. The only problem was with the 3412's. hulls were cracking but I think that was only the first few before Hatteeras fixed the problem. My understanding is it was the speed combined with the weight of the engines that was doing the damage
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
I don't have the listing out yet, but I am in the process of putting my 1993, 46C up for sale. I already have a broker, so that settles that.
She has the 8v92 detroits. REAL cruise numbers are 20kts at 1850 rpm burning 55-60 gph depending on the load. That is what I typically cruise at even though I've been told 1950 is fine... at 1950 she runs 22-23 knots. WOT is like 27-29 knots @ 2350 rpm.
I really baby the boat. Normally we go out for 2-4 days at a time so I do a lot of 8 knot chugging at 850 rpm.
If you're interested, let me know.
Chris
713-392-9908
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
By the way, I'm only selling because I have a new baby on arrival in February, and not enough time to do the big boat thing.
Hate to let her sit.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
saltshaker
Under 300K is doable for the early 3406 boats. There were a few out there and there will be again. There were a couple that sold under 300K but not much less. FYI the 48C is a great boat, it's what the 50C is based on. There were some issues with the stringer system but I think that was only the first year. They are heavy and thirsty boats with the 8V92's.
Can you please elaborate on the issues with the stringer system of the 48C?
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
The stringers on the 48C were attached to the hull instead of being glassed in. Don't know the exact details on the build or repair but the stringers were coming loose. Hatt took a bunch of them back.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
saltshaker
The stringers on the 48C were attached to the hull instead of being glassed in. Don't know the exact details on the build or repair but the stringers were coming loose. Hatt took a bunch of them back.
This must have been an isolated incident that Hatteras took care of. A search on google for Hatteras stringer issues revealed an article "Hull Design Defects Part 1". It was written buy a Surveyor, David Pascoe. In the article he spoke very well about the 48C stringer system and actually even goes on to say it was over-kill. Here is part of that article.
"To gain an appreciation for the significance of this, just look at the massive structural system found in high performance Hatteras or Vikings, shown below. When you're dealing with a quarter million dollars or more worth of engines and transmissions, it doesn't pay to fool around. Mistakes are just too costly. On recent survey of a high performance 48 Hatteras and I was absolutely astounded at the massive stringer system in this boat. Although I had seen it before, I didn't really appreciated how large it was. The width of the top hat bottom supports actually covered nearly 50% of the bottom panel area. "
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
searage
This must have been an isolated incident that Hatteras took care of. A search on google for Hatteras stringer issues revealed an article "Hull Design Defects Part 1". It was written buy a Surveyor, David Pascoe. In the article he spoke very well about the 48C stringer system and actually even goes on to say it was over-kill. Here is part of that article.
"To gain an appreciation for the significance of this, just look at the massive structural system found in high performance Hatteras or Vikings, shown below. When you're dealing with a quarter million dollars or more worth of engines and transmissions, it doesn't pay to fool around. Mistakes are just too costly. On recent survey of a high performance 48 Hatteras and I was absolutely astounded at the massive stringer system in this boat. Although I had seen it before, I didn't really appreciated how large it was. The width of the top hat bottom supports actually covered nearly 50% of the bottom panel area. "
It wasn't an isolated incident. The stringers are tabbed to the hull. It's not the stringers themselves, it's how they were bonded to the hull. AFAIK the 48C was the only boat they did this on. It's also one of the reasons the 48C had such a short production run. I've heard this from good authority including a Hatteras captain who delivered one of the hulls that came loose. I wouldn't put too much weight on Pascoe's comment that you posted. That vintage Viking had serious stringer issues that are now well known. There have been a lot of transmission failures on Vikings due to the stringers rotting.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Twelve 48's were taken back and rebuilt. I would not be scared of any one of them.
When the stringers were laminated to the hull, they would sandblast the area to get a good bond. A hotshot foreman decided that that was not required. The laminators knew it would not work but the boss says....
We had a bumpy ride crossing the Gulf on I think hull 2or3. The boat felt funny and had to tape all the doors shut. The boat then went to a rendezvous sponsered by the Dealer. Monday after the rendezvous, Hatt calls and says to haul the boat and lock it, they are sending a Capt to pick it up and was told that the Capt was told to run the ICW and not to exceed 10 kts.
It was a few months later when we were picking up a new 52 at the plant and we pressed Don Farlow about what happened. I asked if one actually came apart? He said" The one you guys took across the Gulf".
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Wow. I wouldn't have wanted to be the guy that drove it back to the plant. Ouch.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captddis
Twelve 48's were taken back and rebuilt. I would not be scared of any one of them.
When the stringers were laminated to the hull, they would sandblast the area to get a good bond. A hotshot foreman decided that that was not required. The laminators knew it would not work but the boss says....
We had a bumpy ride crossing the Gulf on I think hull 2or3. The boat felt funny and had to tape all the doors shut. The boat then went to a rendezvous sponsered by the Dealer. Monday after the rendezvous, Hatt calls and says to haul the boat and lock it, they are sending a Capt to pick it up and was told that the Capt was told to run the ICW and not to exceed 10 kts.
It was a few months later when we were picking up a new 52 at the plant and we pressed Don Farlow about what happened. I asked if one actually came apart? He said" The one you guys took across the Gulf".
This is good information and I am considering the purchase of a 1988. How can I tell what hull # or whether it is one of the earlier ones?
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
I believe it was the first few boats. The factory rebuilt them and they should be fine.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Well, we might change our search to include the Series II 45C. There seems to be a few more out there. Still not many with Cats, but we'll keep looking. I did see the one with C9s. It's an 1986. I was hoping for a 1988 or later.
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Blaine -
I have a 1986 45II with Cummins QSM - 11's. Probably putting her on the market in the Spring She is located in Wrightsville Beach, NC. If you are in the area, I'd be happy to put you in touch with my captain.
Cheers, george
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
st.tully
Blaine -
I have a 1986 45II with Cummins QSM - 11's. Probably putting her on the market in the Spring She is located in Wrightsville Beach, NC. If you are in the area, I'd be happy to put you in touch with my captain.
Cheers, george
Hi George, I thought maybe you would be moving her to the Capitol Yacht Club :)
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SeaEric
Hi George, I thought maybe you would be moving her to the Capitol Yacht Club :)
Hey Eric -
I'm still really tempted. Or maybe out to your neck of the woods as a getaway. The reality is I just don't have much time anymore.
Cheers, g.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
st.tully
Blaine -
I have a 1986 45II with Cummins QSM - 11's. Probably putting her on the market in the Spring She is located in Wrightsville Beach, NC. If you are in the area, I'd be happy to put you in touch with my captain.
Cheers, george
I could be interested, was hoping for later, but would just like to find a really clean boat.
Blaine
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
George, any photos of your boat you would care to post? I am not giving up mine nor going up in size, but the 45-II is one of my favorite boats and I always enjoy looking at them......
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Attachment 12643
This is the only one I have on this computer. Taken when I bought her in 2007. Now has a full enclosure that stays rolled up unless its cold. She had a full refit in 2002 by Sonny Middleton at Dog river Marina . The owner had had her for quite a few years and had rebuilt the 692's once - he looked for a new boat but decided to refit the 45 instead - the QSM 11 package is what sold me on this boat. I really cant think of a boat in this size range for the money (or for double the money) that I'd rather own.
Blaine, I will send you a PM with Captain's contact info.
Cheers. george
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
'I really cant think of a boat in this size range for the money (or for double the money) that I'd rather own."
Neither can I, and if I hadn't done something else recently, I'd be trying to buy yours. A 45-II wtih Cummins M11s is the one thing that could tempt me out of Blue Note.
That, or a big sailboat. LOL Just kidding.
What kind of performance do you get? I have seen this combination good for 34 knots at only 93% load.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
My QSM 11's are rated at 535hp - which is low - you can get them up to 715hp. Cruise is 24/26kt (36gph) and WOT is 28/30kt (52gph) - depending on props. At the 535hp rating the engines should go 10,000 hours before rebuild. For $5000.00 you can bump it to 660hp - I believe it involves a computer reprogram and injectors.
The way they are now, you can run as hard as you want and they aren't even close to being stressed. I fish out of Wilmington and the run to the Gulfstream is 68 miles - and the seas are almost aways not calm. We run as fast as seas will allow, fish all day and burn 200 gallons.
In comparison to detriots, the QSM's are almost silent. We do alot of cocktail cruising around wrightsville beach and down to southport and bald head island - folks lounge in the cockpit and in the salon with the door open - nobody complains of diesel smoke or noise.
I'll always want/need to have a boat project (and a car project) going. I've always wanted a Bertram 31 or a Bertram 20 - maybe that is heresy on a Hatteras forum, but you must admit that they are classic. I love the 31 in original trim with just a bimini top.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
st.tully
I'll always want/need to have a boat project (and a car project) going. I've always wanted a Bertram 31 or a Bertram 20 - maybe that is heresy on a Hatteras forum, but you must admit that they are classic. I love the 31 in original trim with just a bimini top.
Do you still have the Bentley? If so, ongoing car project is covered. There's always a "next" boat project available, somewhere.
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Re: Looking For a 46 - 50 Convertible
Selling the Bentley and looking for a 300 SEL 6.3 or 4.5 - something a bit more understated.
I'd love to see your new 44. Are you mostly in Lauderdale till Spring?