Satellite TV alternative

I do not watch that much TV, but having this really nice KVH satellite antenna and 30+ inch plasma TV that came with the boat, I felt compelled to purchase Direct TV (primarily for college football. Signed up for the middle package, 200 channes plus the sports package. I have tried to use it twice for football, and both times the games were not available due to the fact that the game was aired by the local network affiliate. For some reason local programming is not available here, and Direct tells me I might be able to get network programming, but it would be via either NY or CA stations.

It is a bit frustrationg to have purchased 232 channels and the Alabama / Florida game not be available on one of them. That leaves, I guess, the traditional antenna.

We had to leave a 3:00 for the Christmas on the River parade (see christmasbyriver.com) and I had assured our guests that I had satellite TV and we could watch the game. When I learned that was not the case, one of my sisters made a quick tripfor me to radio shack, and they did not have an antenna for boats, so like knots, if you can't buy a good one, buy several. She bought 3 on trial but none worked very well. We are between Mobile AL and Biloxi MS, about 30 miles from either and you would think that would be close enough.

What is the best choice in antennas for stations 30 to 40 miles away? Another reason for the post is to vent regarding my experience with Direct TV and perhaps warn others who like me, might assume that 232 channels would provide most anything you would expect from paid TV.
Vincent

Hey Vincent,

I get the local channels (abc, cbs, nbc, pbs etc...) using direct tv on my boat. On my Phillips reciever they are in the regular spots, (4,6,7,10) but down in my lower stateroom, on the Sony direct reciever the local channels are in the upper 980-995. I had to call Direct tv to figure it out. Are you sure you don't get some kind of regional feed? I'm sure there is an option to get some. I've been very happy with the college package and all the channels. I have to admit, my team, LSU was on regular tv every week.... makes me mad paying for it...

What about the new digital antennas coming out for the new digital transmissions? I saw the reception on a boat here in Miami the other day. It was like watching HD!

Cheers,

Captned
MBMM

If you could register your directv at a friend or relative's address to avoid local black-outs. Directv doesn't allow us in Bermuda to have DTV, but a local electronics store had a US address to register our systems to. I can't remember which state, but it was in the eastern time zone, and the state didn't have many or any pro teams so black-outs weren't an issue. I guess DE or MD might be a good choice.

Thanks for the input.
I do not think it is a question of blackouts, rather they do not allow local channels, but in any case if I can change my address with them to a location which allows local access that would give me CBS football, etc. Since I already gave them one address I do not know if I can change it. It is incredible that I am paying for TV that is also paid for by me having to watch commercials.

Back to Capned's comments re digital antennae. That sounds good to me. It seems most logical for me to buy a good antenna if they will work in the 30 to 40 mile range. If I could get local service with Direct, I would have to pay them an additional amount. I'd rather pay once rather than pay even more to Direct but would like some assurance that the reception would be good.

Do you recall the names of those digital antennae or their vendors?

Vincent

Once again Vincent,,

I think you CAN get local channels. I seem to remember jumping through some hoops to get it, but I did. I'll see if I can find out some info for you. I grew up boating in your area. I'll see what I can find out. Check with some of your local boaters that have it.....

Cheers!

Captned
MBMM

The best terrestrial omnidirectional antenna I've ever seen is the 14" Shakespeare...looks like a small flat horizontal disk that is slightly thicker on one end (kind of like the Millenium Falcon for any of your Star Wars fans). It has a booster/attenuater that comes with it. You mount that high up on your flybridge top and you'll get a GREAT picture with any new digital HD tuner in the new tvs. You don't get a good picture at all on the regular analog broadcasts (typically with lots of snow and static), but the new digital broadcasts are like sat tv -- you either get the whole picture clearly, or you don't get it at all and it will just freeze up until it restores reception. No snow or static...even on fringe areas where reception is marginal.

I was truly blown away by the quality. And unlike a KVH dome, you don't have to line up on anything since it's omnidirectional. You just need to be within reach of the station broadcasting.

Thanks Paul,
Do you recall a model number for the Shakespeare antenna?

I have satellite TV here at home in St Louis. For the cost of an "additional receiver" ($5.00) I can also get reception in my boat, wherever it may be. But I only get the coverage I have at home. So in 1996 when I first got this service I was able to get both the east and west coast feeds of the major broadcasters. Then sometime later St Louis got "local service" which then meant I could get all of these, anywhere in the USA. Then DirecTV started "spot broadcasting" as more cities were converted to local programming, which I believe was required by the FCC. I lost both the national feeds, which you can only get if ALL your local channels will grant you a waiver (don't want to lose the ad income). In St Louis only one of the five or six local stations even answered my written request for the waiver. And they said no. If you travel very far from home you get outside the range of the spot. So I don't get my locals anywhere else. Even if I did get them, if my local broadcast is blacked out (if game is not sold out by the day before) the game would not be seen. But it would not be seen on a standard tv antenna either under this circumstance, either.

I don't see any extra charge on my Directv bill (www.directv.com search on "local channels") for your area, and I believe the satellite providers have to provide them as a condition of being able to broadcast the networks. What you can receive seems to be governed entirely by your satellite billing address. I looked into getting Miami stations last year, but was told it would take eight weeks to process and I would have to get the bill mailed to me there, which wouldn't work without too much trouble. Besides, I never watch network tv at home, so who needs it? After not getting replies for my waiver I'm boycotting them. (My grown daughter likes to watch the televised awards which are on around spring break--let her go ashore!)

US satellite companies are only licensed to broadcast to us when we are within the USA. So don't ever tell them you are somewhere outside the US if you have a problem or want to buy a pay per view show. I don't think they can tell where you are unless you say so. I heard from one guy who called, said he was in the Bahamas, and was immediately disconnected. He called back the next day and said he was now in FL and they turned him on again. I have heard they do not have caller ID. I have also heard that an 18 in. dish, slightly larger than usual, works at least as far SE as Georgetown, Great Exuma I., Bahamas. I have recently heard that if you have an RV you can qualify for the national network feeds, but not so if you have a boat. Again, how will they know?

Fanfare....

Same usage for me. We have one receiver on the boat (DirectTV) and the other at home getting Detroit as our "locals". Whenever we went to the boat in Miami, we'd call DirectTV and change our service address to the Miami marina address and presto! ---we now had Miami as our "locals".

As we boated north last spring, I would call periodically and give a new "service location" so as to continue receiving network broadcasts.

We have a KVH-C3 system.

Years ago, our network channels were (as I recall), Seattle and New York though we were in Marco Island. We could only get the local feed if we could establish that we could not otherwise receive local channels (an affidavit was required). Based upon recent experience as described, that is obviously no longer required.

In my experience, the "spot beaming" of local networks has a range of about 100 miles depending on the area and market --greater range when the markets are more widely dispersed.

I remain interested in the issue of satellite coverage and appreciate the information; however I do not want to miss another game.

I have deceded to add a non satellite antenna. The local electronics supply has two Shakespeare "Seawatch" (made by Winegard) models a 20+ inch diameter model 2030 and a 14 inch model 2020(?). Same price for either, and since neither will add to the looks of the boat, the smaller one would be my preference. On the other hand the whole purpose is reception, Is bigger better?
Vincent

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Originally Posted by Vincentc

I remain interested in the issue of satellite coverage and appreciate the information; however I do not want to miss another game.

I have deceded to add a non satellite antenna. The local electronics supply has two Shakespeare "Seawatch" (made by Winegard) models a 20+ inch diameter model 2030 and a 14 inch model 2020(?). Same price for either, and since neither will add to the looks of the boat, the smaller one would be my preference. On the other hand the whole purpose is reception, Is bigger better?
Vincent

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You bet. Bigger is better. If you are receiving any signal that is light in signal strength now. When they start broadcasting digital you will not receive it. The more gain you have the better. Some guys are going to stacking beam antennas to increase the gain. I have the big diameter antenna on the boat. I'm waiting to see what happens before I buy new antennas. Right now I don't like what is out there.

BILL

My boat was purchased equipped with the Shakespeare omni-directional with booster -----and I couldn't hold a signal. That was a major reason for my purchase of the C3. However, I read what was said by old Cap'n Ned who suggested that the digital signal will be much easier to hold than analog and with that bit of info----I'll be re-connecting that Shakespeare this Spring to see if he's right.

Sorry old Bugsy,

I don't think you "Canucks" will get the digital signal. You should move to Florida.

The old Shakesphere antennas wont pick up digital signals. You will need to by a new one.

Cheers,

Captned

I have used a Shakespeare 2030 (big flying saucer) for many years with good results. It gets analog, digital and HDTV signals. I get 5 local HDTV channels over the air and the picture on those channels looks much better than on the Seatel Coastal 24 with DirecTV. Alot of bang for the buck, this model 2030!

Mount it as high as possible though. Mine is up on the radar arch with all the other antennas. It is certainly not attractive, but if anyone ever mentions it I'll just show them the picture quality!

Huh? Whether you can pick up the digital over the air signals is not antenna dependent. Any antenna that can pick up the over the air analog stations will pick up the digitals..even an old rabbit ears style one can as long as the signal is strong (that's what I use in the spare bedroom). What it is dependent on is what that an tenna is connected to...it must be a digital capable tuner..either an HD TV or one of the digital converter boxes, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Captned

Sorry old Bugsy,

I don't think you "Canucks" will get the digital signal. You should move to Florida.

The old Shakesphere antennas wont pick up digital signals. You will need to by a new one.

Cheers,

Captned

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Hey, Capn Ned. Did you read Stormchaser's comments? Just as I thought! Even up here....wayyyyyyyyy up north....we get all those TV ads saying that all you need come January is an antenna (rabbit ears suffice) and a digital-ready TV or converter. So----unlike my cell phone antenna which is indeed tuned for analog and not digital, I THINK that the Shakespeare will receive the over-the-air signal and deliver it to my HDTV.

And that will even work wayyyyyyyyyy up here in Canada (the same latitude as norther California).

Oops... My bad. Whats up Bugsy?

I guess I will need one of those converter boxes.. Can't you get a coupon for one or something?

Captned

If you are in the USA...each household can get up to TWO $40 coupons that can be applied to the pruchase of an approved converter box. There are super cheap boxes available that you can get for free after the coupon, but there are good boxes that can be had for about $10 plus the coupon. I got mine for about $7 after the coupon and got them from Amazon with free shipping. :D

Check out https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx to apply for your coupon...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Captned

Oops... My bad. Whats up Bugsy?

I guess I will need one of those converter boxes.. Can't you get a coupon for one or something?

Captned

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You don't need a converter if you have a digital TV. And Cap'n Ned...I don't want this spread around but for $100 plus UPS, I'll essentially GIVE you a nice Sony 720p HD TV.

That's even better than a coupon.

"The Bug man"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bugsy

My boat was purchased equipped with the Shakespeare omni-directional with booster -----and I couldn't hold a signal. That was a major reason for my purchase of the C3. However, I read what was said by old Cap'n Ned who suggested that the digital signal will be much easier to hold than analog and with that bit of info----I'll be re-connecting that Shakespeare this Spring to see if he's right.

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That's not completely true. The new digital signal is riding on the old RF waves. The signal will not fluctuate as much as the AM picture because it will be sent in strings. Just like the internet. The principal is the same as the computer router. If the RF signal is not strong enough or fluctuates alot the picture will just drop out. I won't know the signal strength required until Easter when the boat goes back in the water. Any stations that you receive strong today you should be able to receive. The reason for the change is the signals are sent in strings the same as the internet. This way they can send numerous programs on the same frequency at the same time. creating more channels. The cost of the base station frequency is so great and the spectrum is getting so crowded that there are no longer any new frequencies available. Instead of 567 channels on cable you will get maybe 3000 channels.
Man what kind of channel surfing is that going to be. Look out remote. We will probably need to replace the remotes once a month.:D

BILL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vincentc

I remain interested in the issue of satellite coverage and appreciate the information; however I do not want to miss another game.

I have deceded to add a non satellite antenna. The local electronics supply has two Shakespeare "Seawatch" (made by Winegard) models a 20+ inch diameter model 2030 and a 14 inch model 2020(?). Same price for either, and since neither will add to the looks of the boat, the smaller one would be my preference. On the other hand the whole purpose is reception, Is bigger better?
Vincent

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I hope you have better luck with those so-called marine antennae than I have had. I had a friend at our marina that was an editor for Yachting magazine and he always had me testing stuff that their advetisers sent him.
Ater trying 3 different marine antennas,with the offer to keep them if I wanted,I still stick a rabbit ear in a rod holder on the flybridge when we are away from the dock. It actually works better than any of them.

So,it is still Direct TV at the dock or a rabbit ear for me,besides when I put it away,there isn't another piece o "stuff" to look at on the boat

Many kinds of antennas can be mounted on the inside of the flybridge shell where they are out of sight. Fiberglass is virtually transparent to radio waves. I gave some thought to mounting my satellite antenna under mine as there is a lot of waste space there. However, I was afraid that my metal control panel might cause a large blind spot when the sat antenna was aimed directly astern. Most antennas don't have the need to focus the signal as sharply as a satellite.

I do have two large radar reflectors permanently mounted under the flybridge.

That's where my TV antenna has been on both my baots with flying bridges and Ive gotten what I consider excellent reception. :)

I ahve also found that I get far more channels now that I'm on digital...once I could not pull in before come in loud & clear...

I'm not sure if this goes for all Hatts with fiberglass hardtops, but isn't there a copper mesh built into the fiberglass that was used for single side bands. Wouldn't that interfere with TV reception if an antenna were mounted inside the flybridge?

If we have an A/B switch onboard for cable/antenna, would we need a digital converter box put inline with the antenna for the new digital signal. Can you use one box to cover all of the tvs onboard? When switched to cable, it would take the converter box "offline".

The converter box is basically a digital tuner that takes digital signals and ouputs them in analog format on channel 3/4. You set the TV's tuner to 3/4 and use the convert box to do all yiour channel changing. Sort of like a "cable box" but for over the air stuff. So...just like a cable box, you need one for each old analog TV you want to be able to watch over the air stuff on...unless you add a cable splitter AFTER the coverter box and run those cables to each TV...but then all TVs would need to wach the same channel and you would have to go to whereever the converter box is to change the channel.

Yes, you can use an A/B swtich. Basically the output from your "cable" would go in input A, the one from antenna in input B and the output goes to the TV. When you want to watch cable...have it on A, when u want to watch over the air stuff...on B...

Does all that make sense?

Putting the antenna inside the FB is not a good idea. You could easily produce ghost and have a very bad signal with lots of drop outs. Strong signals will pass through the fiberglass, but the week ones will not. It's the same with any antenna, get them as high as you can and in the clear of any thing. Mine is mounted 6 inches above the hardtop. You will receive more channels in digital because you will receive the same single frequency as before, but within that single frequency will be placed many new channels digitally sent and then separated by your converter or TV. Digital reception is better because it does not take up anymore band width.

BILL

I understand. My TV system is currently on A/B. With cable attached at the dock (with new converter at each TV), would I be changing channels on TV with "on TV" channels or also be using the converter box and TV set to 3/4?

How can I tell if my tv can recieve digital signals? Its about two years old. Flat sceen LCD dell....

Cheers,

Captned

Look up the model specifications on the set or try to get the off air channel in yout area. Dell sold a lot of "low cost" monitors and TV's so you may need a converter or just use satellite or cable.

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Originally Posted by Captned

How can I tell if my tv can recieve digital signals? Its about two years old. Flat sceen LCD dell....

Cheers,

Captned

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Dear Cap'n Ned.........it can, you....you... You were getting DirectTV, weren't you?.

You're welcome.

The "Bug Man"

Direct TV is not digital out (it is digital in)...the signal output is analog. The way to tell if it can accept digital signals is look for the words HDTV on the front. lol

How can I tell if my tv can recieve digital signals?

You need a digital ATSC tuner...or a new converter box if your tuner is older analog....to receive over the air broadcast TV.

In general rabbit ears won't work well after Feb 2009 because many digital channels will be UHF broadcast...rabbit ears are good only for vhf broadcast. if your marine antenna is vhf/uhf I think you'll be ok on the antenna part.

Shakespeare omnidirectional: When I bought mine about five years ago, I anchored out and placed it temporarily on my flybridge...and compared TV picture and reception with and without the Shakespeare and amplifier: it made a HUGE difference, a substantial improvement....I got more channels and better quality picture.

One minor issue is that all the new digital converter boxes I 've searched are 120 volt so you'll have to power them via an inverter aboard your boat ...the one I bought is only 4 watts at 120 volts, about .033 amps so at 12 volts it will be about 0.33 amps....pretty minor....

Has anyone seen new LCD TV's at 12 volts...say for campers?

I haven't looked much , but because new LCD and Plasma TV's reportedly draw more power than older sets they may be more difficult to find. I never found older CRT sets bigger than 13" at 12 volts.....

I found a 15" LCD at Home cheapo that had a 12V power supply. Wired it right into my old boat. Many have the external power supplies up to around 15-17 inches. larger than that I have not seen too many 12V ones

Re: Mesh SSB antennas in later Hatts:

My boat was built before SSB became available, so I don't have this feature. However, I believe the mesh for the counterpoise (part of the SSB grounding system) is incorporated into the deck of the flybridge, where it is flat. I would think that this should not affect a TV signal. Height of antenna is certainly important, but so is appearance. As with everything else, it's a trade-off.

With my SSB I have tried to expand on the factory ground plates by adding two more larger ones to the hull. Let me just say that this often works. I must be sure the stereo system which provides the sound for my satellite TV is off for transmission as the radio signal comes out through the speakers very loudly!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fanfare

Re: Mesh SSB antennas in later Hatts:

My boat was built before SSB became available, so I don't have this feature. However, I believe the mesh for the counterpoise (part of the SSB grounding system) is incorporated into the deck of the flybridge, where it is flat. I would think that this should not affect a TV signal. Height of antenna is certainly important, but so is appearance. As with everything else, it's a trade-off.

With my SSB I have tried to expand on the factory ground plates by adding two more larger ones to the hull. Let me just say that this often works. I must be sure the stereo system which provides the sound for my satellite TV is off for transmission as the radio signal comes out through the speakers very loudly!

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Adding more ground plates WILL NOT help your signal or keep you out of your stereo or speakers. There are two situation that can cause this. One is a poor grade of coax feeding the antenna. Two the swr is high from the above or an improperly tuned antenna. Your looking to create a counterpoise four your antenna not add a better ground. Adding a bigger counterpoise like using a railing or railings. Or a length of wire running through the boat. Or an antenna tuner. I use a what is called a screwdriver antenna on all HF frequencys. 160 meters through 6 meters. It works as an antenna tuner. I just flip a switch and adjust the swr for minimum and I'm good to go.
Rabbit ears won't do crap on UHF and aren't much good on VHF ether. Strong signals only.
BILL