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Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Gentlemen,
I have read a great many of the knowledgeable posts and have learned quite a lot. Thank you for investing in the forum. My plans are to purchase and gradually (4 yrs) move full time on a boat. Quality of construction and seaworthyness lead me to Hatteras.
I have no prior boating experience, but hey, everyone starts somewhere.
I would like to request your guidance.
One question I have regards insurance. With no prior experience, what must I do to have a chance at being underwritten? I understand coverage is required for slip rental.
Question 2: it looks like their is about a 100k spread between an updated boat and one where maintenance has been deferred. Whereas engine life on the dd''s appears to vary so greatly, in your opinion is it better to buy a run out set, drop the 60k and start with fresh motors?
Question 3: practicality of a stand up engine room vs the 52MY. I AM 6'4" and not a light weight. The thought of cramming myself into a 4' space to service the engines cause's me to break out into a cold sweat. So I thought the 53'-58' would provide at least head room. Okay, here''s the question - since the 52 has plenty of living space, would it be better to save the money on purchase and just pay the yard to perform the servides.
Thanks in advance.
Mark
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chasemmc
Gentlemen,
I have read a great many of the knowledgeable posts and have learned quite a lot. Thank you for investing in the forum. My plans are to purchase and gradually (4 yrs) move full time on a boat. Quality of construction and seaworthyness lead me to Hatteras.
I have no prior boating experience, but hey, everyone starts somewhere.
I would like to request your guidance.
One question I have regards insurance. With no prior experience, what must I do to have a chance at being underwritten? I understand coverage is required for slip rental.
Question 2: it looks like their is about a 100k spread between an updated boat and one where maintenance has been deferred. Whereas engine life on the dd''s appears to vary so greatly, in your opinion is it better to buy a run out set, drop the 60k and start with fresh motors?
Question 3: practicality of a stand up engine room vs the 52MY. I AM 6'4" and not a light weight. The thought of cramming myself into a 4' space to service the engines cause's me to break out into a cold sweat. So I thought the 53'-58' would provide at least head room. Okay, here''s the question - since the 52 has plenty of living space, would it be better to save the money on purchase and just pay the yard to perform the servides.
Thanks in advance.
Mark
My 2 cents:
1) Boat US underwrites these older boats via a quality survey.
2) Don't let the engine hours determine your decision outside of the price of the particular vessel you're willing to spend. Factor that detail into your offer. The Detroits are all serviceable, parts and knowledge readily available. Engine overall condition and maintenance, however, are a good litmus for all of the things you might not see during your review. Engage the help of a very good surveyor to help you identify the list of priorities and to ultimately craft the document that will serve to obtain your insurance. Don't cut corners in choosing or involving a surveyor.
3) The older you get, the more important that ER space becomes, due to physical limitations, eye sight, etc. Don't count on a yard being there to provide the service that you need, as they may well also be limited to what they can see and proactively do for you. If you have the knowledge and experience, you'll want the boat laid out in a manner that you can see and digest the issues in advance of the repair team, even if your preference is to hire someone else to do the work. You'll want to be able to step in and review the condition of hoses, gaskets, bilge water, filters, etc on your own, for your own piece of mind, and your budget will appreciate anything that you can manage to handle yourself.
With regards to your comments on Hatteras and seaworthiness, Hatt built an absolutely terrific boat in the 60's, 70's, and 80's (assuming this is the range where you are looking), but if you're planning to cruise offshore to any extent, and you're shopping a motor yacht, you'll want stabilizers as boats tend to be tall while providing living space. Tall leads to a snappiness in open water roll, so you'll want to temper that snap with stabilizers. The alternative is the Convertibles which manage roll via speed and are quite stable under all conditions when coupled with forward progress.
Finally, as you look, learn, and shop, ask questions to this forum. There is an incredible collection of experience and knowledge here on all shapes and sizes of the Hatt family.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Welcome to the HOF. WE have a good bunch of folks here who try to help in many ways.
I'll toss in some thoughts for you as you go forward. And before I start, if you are looking for liveaboard comfort, you'll get more for a given length in a motor yacht than a convertible. On the other hand, if you contemplate being off shore in rough weather, you will want the stability of a convertible.
Most insurance companies will require you to have some experience or have a captain on board when underway until you get that experience. Take some boating courses and join a boating organization that fosters safety. USPS and USCGA.
Don't get tempted by a fixer upper to save a few bucks. It will cost more in time, aggravation and $$ in the long run.
Detroit engines are pretty tough, but those that are at the high end of the HP/displacement range will not last as long. Most are rebuildable 'in-frame' for much less than a repower.
Look up Genesis' 30 second compression test on this site. It can give you a quick, low cost indication of the health of an old engine.
Many of our boats have some design flaws that you want to understand as you look at boats. The most expensive to fix are associated with rotten cores in decks. Buy or borrow a moisture meter and learn how to locate these. There has been a lot written here on the topic.
Engine room head room is good to have. 6'4" would be nice, but one of our ancient mariners here is taller than you and gets around in the 5'10" headroom between the engines of his 48MY. I'm closer to 6' and manage as well, but at my even more advanced age, I rely more and more on mechanics for everything but the routine.
Good Luck
Bobk
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Get out there and look at these boats. Once you have been on a few of the different models, you will know which you like best. After that, concentrate on the model that fits your needs. From there, find the one that is in the best overall condition. Remember, interior redecorating is the cheapest thing. Don't let the Admiral fall in love with a boat just because it has the right color scheme. Bringing the mechanicals up to speed or fixing rotten coring are the most expensive.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Thanks fellas for responding.
I have worn the page numbers off Dave Pascoe''s books, and outside of being a little jaded due to the lifetime spent in the industry, found them to be a good primer. His opinions are what led me to dump the "value" boats in favor of proven quality.
I'm pretty good with my hands, but never have rebuilt a motor. So, the interior can be redone to the wife's sensibilities, by yours truly, but the mechanical need to go to the pros.
Any opinions on the deck core issue between the 53, 56, 58? Any model better than the other?
The farthest I plan on venturing is the carribean. Any differences in seaworthiness between the models?
I believe that professional training is always a good investment. Can u all recommend a school that will train on the new to me boat?
I assume spring is the busy time for boat purchases, what is slow time? Better before end of year, tax time, layup time?
I read the 30sec test from Genesis, very helpful. Is 60K the right number for a major on a pair of 8v92ti's including new turbos, pumps, injectors, heat exchangers, etc. Can u recommend a good engine man that I could open a dialog with? Same for the surveyor.
Thanks again for your thoughts
Mark
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chasemmc
Thanks fellas for responding.
I have worn the page numbers off Dave Pascoe''s books, and outside of being a little jaded due to the lifetime spent in the industry, found them to be a good primer. His opinions are what led me to dump the "value" boats in favor of proven quality.
I'm pretty good with my hands, but never have rebuilt a motor. So, the interior can be redone to the wife's sensibilities, by yours truly, but the mechanical need to go to the pros.
Any opinions on the deck core issue between the 53, 56, 58? Any model better than the other?
The farthest I plan on venturing is the carribean. Any differences in seaworthiness between the models?
I believe that professional training is always a good investment. Can u all recommend a school that will train on the new to me boat?
I assume spring is the busy time for boat purchases, what is slow time? Better before end of year, tax time, layup time?
I read the 30sec test from Genesis, very helpful. Is 60K the right number for a major on a pair of 8v92ti's including new turbos, pumps, injectors, heat exchangers, etc. Can u recommend a good engine man that I could open a dialog with? Same for the surveyor.
Thanks again for your thoughts
Mark
My best effort in order of your notes:
-Quality and value are inevitably linked. Hatts of vintage are both quality and value.
-Mechanical to the pro's is one thing, but access to the engines to proactively recognize items before they become issues is key. You'll want to be able to get in and see, check, monitor. Bones before beauty.
-Take advantage of the effort to update finishes to update systems hidden by those finishes.
-Coring is evident in Hatts throughout time. Coring itself isn't a concern unless allowed to become exposed due to new penetrations, deck hardware, poor maintenance, etc. Ask the questions about more specific models and years as you learn and shop, and those here will help you compare and understand. My 53c, for instance, only has coring in the foredeck and salon roof/bridge sole. Older convertible models had coring in the transom as well.
-Caribbean is a big area, lots of very open waters and changing weather. Be prepared.
-Seasons vary depending on location. Same with schools. Where are you shopping, where are you focused on being based and spending time? Same applies to surveyors and mechanics...
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Been on three 52 tri and one 53my. One 52 listed for 170 and sold for 135. Interior trashed and 600hr 8v92's had an engine room that screamed 'no one cares'. Another 52 tri had fresh motors and an immaculate ER, listed for 299. But that is when I decided that mobility would preclude me taking care of them properly. The 53my was a project but the layout worked.
Really looking for a boat where owner loved and took care of it and wants it to go to a new owner who will do the same. I would think these would be first identified by its marina mates before they go on yachtworld. My budget is between 200-250k. Is this realistic?
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
IMHO, 53 MY's are very rolly boats. I would want one with a good, perhaps even oversized stabilizer system if you are headed to the Caribbean.
The hull and engine surveyors you choose will be influenced by it's location. Find THE boat first, then the surveyors.
The coring issues are common to all the Hatts AFAIK. It comes down to preventative maintenance. The chain pipe and windlass are the common points of water intrusion into the core of the fore deck. A knowledgeable owner would correct this before it started, or shortly thereafter. Same things for the forward windows. Water gets in and rots the core below it and the adjacent decks. The moisture meter will tell the story in these areas. But also search under cores, soft cores etc.
Look also at the aft spray rails. Many are mahogany and if abused, get water behind them and they start to rot, as well as let water into the boat. Replacing them with fiberglass rails gets expensive.
There are a whole lot of 53MY's in this world. Be choosey and one will come your way.
Bobk
Chateau de Mer
1981Series I MY
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Hi Chasemmc,
I, like you have developed an interest in the Hatteras's and I am looking at the 53 MY as well as the 58 Yacht Fisherman. Marine surveyor David Pascoe has had an influence on me as well!
You asked about taking a course (or 2 or 3 or more!) as a beginner. As it was wisely pointed out in this discussion, you should get comfortable and really know your way around your boat, especially in the ER. I would suggest going to a diesel engine repair and maintenance course for some hands on education. At least you will have a better working knowledge and build some confidence. I went to one of these in Annapolis, MD about 20 years ago. It was taught over 2 weekends and we took apart and rebuilt a small 4 stroke diesel engine. Even as a "blow boater"for many years I took my engines very seriously and developed a real fondness for taking good care of them. I would also suggest going to www.boatdiesel.com and for $25 a year, they are an incredible resource for learning and finding out answers to almost any question you can come up with.
This Hatteras owners forum is an amazing resource as well. I am pretty certain that our next boat will be a Hatteras so I expect to be lurking around here for a long while.
Jonathan
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
if either of ya'll are looking for a repowered 53, i know of one that is pretty close to me. PM me if interested
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
I generally agree with everything that the others have said.
I bought a 1978 58' Yachtfish in the winter of 2002. I probably looked at 20 to 30 Hatteras's. Most of them were poorly maintained probably by people who could not afford to maintain them or didn't know how to do the work themselves. I basically fall into the category of not knowing how to do the mechanical work myself and have used the same boat mechanic since I bought the boat. I think I can take care of just about everything now by watching and asking questions of the mechanic. We have been aggressive on the maintenance because I would like to get ahead of any potential "issues".
I have our boat in south Florida and have used it in the Bahamas and the keys to Key West in addition to having it as far north as Cape May. On the 53's & 58's for what you are describing you have to have stabilizers. Absolutely buy the best boat you can afford and it will be in your price range probably. Under no circumstances buy a project boat. Your idea of finding a great boat form dock mates or friends will probably get you the best boats but it is probably hard to do. I prefer the 8v71TI's over the 8v92's.
My wife is 5'1" and is not athletic. She was intimadated of the idea of docking with the lines on the stern of the 53'. When she was on a 58' Yachtfish (which was junk) she knew that was the style she wanted. Almost 14 years later she is still happy with that decision.
There are Hatteras's out there in great condition. You just have to be patient to find one. We were and we got a great boat from a retired Air Force pilot who was meticulous in taking care of the boat.
Don't feel bashful about using this forum. It is an invaluable source of valuable information and insight. The membership is awesome.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
All very good advice and a good example as well of what this forum does best. A tip of the hat to all who have contributed here.
Look at a LOT of different boats. Hatteras built the 15-10 series for about twenty years so there are various editions of each design; some you will like more than others. Because the company paid attention to comments from buyers and owners, generally speaking the designs evolved for the better.
Detroits that have had decent maintenance will take you a very long way. If properly treated, they are among the most reliable diesels ever made.
I don't know about the figure of 60K for majoring both engines in-frame. Can anyone comment on this? It sounds like it might be in the ballpark, but may vary from region to region.
Don't neglect to look in the Great Lakes area. There are some very well-cared for boats up there, with all freshwater boating and a short season, plus indoor storage. You would hire a captain and mate to take the boat home, and you could get invaluable experience and instruction on your own boat.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SKYCHENEY
Get out there and look at these boats. Once you have been on a few of the different models, you will know which you like best. After that, concentrate on the model that fits your needs. From there, find the one that is in the best overall condition. Remember, interior redecorating is the cheapest thing. Don't let the Admiral fall in love with a boat just because it has the right color scheme. Bringing the mechanicals up to speed or fixing rotten coring are the most expensive.
This is about the best advise any of us could offer without knowing you're detailed needs in a boat. A stand up ER is fantastic but I wouldn't make your purchase solely on that. Most of these boats have decent ER space so as long as you can work in the ER with relative ease, they will be fine. I have a walk in stand up ER and I do like the ease of ER checks while underway. Determine what it is you need and see what layout works best for you. Cost of operation is similar for most of the MYs in the 52-58 range. If you move up to the 18'2" beam wide body boats, you'll get a ton more space and much bigger ER. You'll also have bigger engines and higher ownership cost. Not too much more unless you get into the 12 cylinder boats. Get on board various models and start narrowing down your search. Ask questions about specific models you are interested in and any particular boat you may want to pursue.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jim rosenthal
I don't know about the figure of 60K for majoring both engines in-frame. Can anyone comment on this? It sounds like it might be in the ballpark, but may vary from region to region.
Jim,
I went on BoatDiesel.com and asked this question. The answer I got for a ballpark number to start was about $4000 per cylinder. This was for an in-frame rebuild.
Jonathan
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrbrein
Jim,
I went on BoatDiesel.com and asked this question. The answer I got for a ballpark number to start was about $4000 per cylinder. This was for an in-frame rebuild.
Jonathan
that's ball park but much depends on the condition of what's in there, which engines and most importantly, accessibility.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
hi guys ...we too looked at a lot of Hatteras and some of them were just so bad the owners should be Horse Whipped..LOL..we came to Hatteras looking for anything from 48' -53' ..we really wanted a 53'MY our friend has one and we really loved it so we concentrated our look just for 53 footers..drove many places and flew many places only to be disappointed of what we saw...then while on a trip to Miami our broker told us to go look at a 56' MY in Lighthouse Point Fl. we had no idea of the 56' MY ...i told the broker that we were looking at 53' Hatteras and he told us you can fit the 53' MY inside this boat and sit still has room he was not lying....when we saw the boat and my wife saw the wide beam and all the extra room with the higher head room bathtub in the master and the VIP in front of the engine rooms there was no changing her mind and i am so glad for it ....was more expensive then the 53' MY and what we wanted to spend but with the wide beam it almost seams like u get twice the boat with all that extra room.....for my $$$$$ wide beam is the only way to go....and yes we do have Stabilizers and a Bow Thrust which are all needed
Joe
1981 56' MY
Lake Gloria II
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kjcampos
hi guys ...we too looked at a lot of Hatteras and some of them were just so bad the owners should be Horse Whipped..LOL..we came to Hatteras looking for anything from 48' -53' ..we really wanted a 53'MY our friend has one and we really loved it so we concentrated our look just for 53 footers..drove many places and flew many places only to be disappointed of what we saw...then while on a trip to Miami our broker told us to go look at a 56' MY in Lighthouse Point Fl. we had no idea of the 56' MY ...i told the broker that we were looking at 53' Hatteras and he told us you can fit the 53' MY inside this boat and sit still has room he was not lying....when we saw the boat and my wife saw the wide beam and all the extra room with the higher head room bathtub in the master and the VIP in front of the engine rooms there was no changing her mind and i am so glad for it ....was more expensive then the 53' MY and what we wanted to spend but with the wide beam it almost seams like u get twice the boat with all that extra room.....for my $$$$$ wide beam is the only way to go....and yes we do have Stabilizers and a Bow Thrust which are all needed
Joe
1981 56' MY
Lake Gloria II
It all depends on how and where you plan to use the boat. Up in the Lakes, we cruise with two other Hatts that have the 18' 2" beam. There are many times during the busy season when the marinas cannot accommodate that beam. They need a side tie as the wide slips are limited or not available. With our 15' 10" beam, we usually have no problem at all and can even back into a 40ft slip if necessary.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SKYCHENEY
It all depends on how and where you plan to use the boat. Up in the Lakes, we cruise with two other Hatts that have the 18' 2" beam. There are many times during the busy season when the marinas cannot accommodate that beam. They need a side tie as the wide slips are limited or not available. With our 15' 10" beam, we usually have no problem at all and can even back into a 40ft slip if necessary.
hi SKYCHENEY...we have never been on the Great Lakes we are mostly on the Gulfcoast of Florida down to the Keys and we came down the ICW from where we bought our boat in NC south and we never had a problem calling the same day we cruised for a transient slip for the night...i don't know about the Great Lakes but they don't let you put your 56' into a 40' slip around here i wish they would so i would only have to pay for a 40' slip.....lol
Joe
1981 56' MY
Lake Gloria II
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kjcampos
hi SKYCHENEY...we have never been on the Great Lakes we are mostly on the Gulfcoast of Florida down to the Keys and we came down the ICW from where we bought our boat in NC south and we never had a problem calling the same day we cruised for a transient slip for the night...i don't know about the Great Lakes but they don't let you put your 56' into a 40' slip around here i wish they would so i would only have to pay for a 40' slip.....lol
Joe
1981 56' MY
Lake Gloria II
I'm glad it has all worked out for you. The 56MY is a great boat. My point is just that not everyone has the same needs and other models may work out better depending on where you cruise or how you use the boat.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kjcampos
hi SKYCHENEY...we have never been on the Great Lakes we are mostly on the Gulfcoast of Florida down to the Keys and we came down the ICW from where we bought our boat in NC south and we never had a problem calling the same day we cruised for a transient slip for the night...i don't know about the Great Lakes but they don't let you put your 56' into a 40' slip around here i wish they would so i would only have to pay for a 40' slip.....lol
Joe
1981 56' MY
Lake Gloria II
Although you can usually find slips, your options can be limited with the bigger boat. I know I've run into that more than once. You also will be limited to which yards you can use based on the size of the lift and well. May not be an isuue depending on the facilities available in his homeport and cruising grounds but it is something to consider. I know I ran into this in Fl, NC and NJ. Most yards that can hull and store the bigger boats are often more expensive and not DIY friendly. That being said I love the bigger boat.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
HI Jack...we are planing on going to NJ this coming summer and need to find a slip for a few months ....do you know of a nice Marina "preferably with floating docks" from the Toms River area north that we can stay ...our draft is 5' on our 56' MY ...we have lots of family in NJ and want to take a nice cruise with our boat....thanks
Joe
1981 56' MY
Lake Gloria II
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
WELCOME Chasemmc!
Just to get your quotes straight...the 892 rebuilds (complete including tranny's, new cutlass bearings, engine alignments and new everything) will get closer to $60,000 per engine...not the pair. ...And Especially for being Newbie...DON'T BUY A FIXER UPPER of ANY KIND! PERIOD. Spend the $250,000 for the nicest, most survey correct 53 you can find on the planet. You'll be glad you did later. Your full risk insurance policy for a boat with a correct survey will run about $6500 for the year if you plan on cruising south.
Best of Luck!
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pizzazsdaddy
WELCOME Chasemmc!
Just to get your quotes straight...the 892 rebuilds (complete including tranny's, new cutlass bearings, engine alignments and new everything) will get closer to $60,000 per engine...not the pair. ...And Especially for being Newbie...DON'T BUY A FIXER UPPER of ANY KIND! PERIOD. Spend the $250,000 for the nicest, most survey correct 53 you can find on the planet. You'll be glad you did later. Your full risk insurance policy for a boat with a correct survey will run about $6500 for the year if you plan on cruising south.
Best of Luck!
I need to start doing work for you. That's ok as far as finding the yard that caters to the rich and crazy but I repowered a 42 hatt with cummins 450c and Transmissions for less than that.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pizzazsdaddy
WELCOME Chasemmc!
Just to get your quotes straight...the 892 rebuilds (complete including tranny's, new cutlass bearings, engine alignments and new everything) will get closer to $60,000 per engine...not the pair. ...And Especially for being Newbie...DON'T BUY A FIXER UPPER of ANY KIND! PERIOD. Spend the $250,000 for the nicest, most survey correct 53 you can find on the planet. You'll be glad you did later. Your full risk insurance policy for a boat with a correct survey will run about $6500 for the year if you plan on cruising south.
Best of Luck!
Anyone who spends 120K to rebuild a pair of 8V92s should be institutionalized. Why would you rebuild the trannies if they don't need it? Most good ones will make it through 3 engine rebuilds if they are cared for. My mechanic did an 8v92TA for my neighbor. The engine had to come out of the boat since the crank was bad. 32K for a very extensive rebuild with the added cost of getting the engine out and back in to a very tight ER.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boatsb
I need to start doing work for you. That's ok as far as finding the yard that caters to the rich and crazy but I repowered a 42 hatt with cummins 450c and Transmissions for less than that.
I agree. If someone tried to sell me a $60k rebuild, I'd opt to repower with warranties and sell the old units for parts. That's just insane.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
We need to work the cost out in pizzadollars. Remember his boat first listed for $599 or so and sold for about $200. That's 3 pizzadollars to a us dollar by my math.
So 120/ 3 = 40 or about $20k per engine.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
There are 8v71N remans going for $16k plus core,$4k for trans and a $10k remove/install per motor and not changing shafts etc. I was told $3k +\- per hole is normal for in hull rebuilds.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Pizzadollars.... I like it. So... buy in PZ$s and sell in USD.. or do I have it backwards?
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
saltshaker
Anyone who spends 120K to rebuild a pair of 8V92s should be institutionalized. Why would you rebuild the trannies if they don't need it? Most good ones will make it through 3 engine rebuilds if they are cared for. My mechanic did an 8v92TA for my neighbor. The engine had to come out of the boat since the crank was bad. 32K for a very extensive rebuild with the added cost of getting the engine out and back in to a very tight ER.
Double ditto!! Or I want the job.
JM
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Actually... my 58 Hatteras Yacht Fish PIZZAZ eventually closed at $260K...which was a steal for her buyer back then. 980 original hours. The survey and engine surveys were flawless. Her physical condition was one of a kind factory new in every respect. 3 years and 700 hours later, her new owner has yet to need a major repair on any component. NOT APPLES TO APPLES! This thread was about what it COULD cost a newbie in a major yard in South Florida, not "how cheap I can do it".
I just happen to be one of those guys who admittedly goes overboard in the pursuit of "perfect". To consider a rebuild, I want everything renewed from the cooling system, to the exhausts, to the heat exchangers, starters and water pumps, to new hoses and clamps whether needed or not. The WORKS...not just the overhaul. The whole premise being to renew "everything" to "NEW" condition. Not just what it "needs".
We're looking at things from 2 different perspectives.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pizzazsdaddy
I just happen to be one of those guys who admittedly goes overboard in the pursuit of "perfect". To consider a rebuild, I want everything renewed from the cooling system, to the exhausts, to the heat exchangers, starters and water pumps, to new hoses and clamps whether needed or not. The WORKS...not just the overhaul. The whole premise being to renew "everything" to "NEW" condition. Not just what it "needs".
Well, if you know that going in there will be very few surprises.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Follow the market. Pizzadollars =2.5 US today.
I wonder what the market will do next year.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pizzazsdaddy
Actually... my 58 Hatteras Yacht Fish PIZZAZ eventually closed at $260K...which was a steal for her buyer back then. 980 original hours. The survey and engine surveys were flawless. Her physical condition was one of a kind factory new in every respect. 3 years and 700 hours later, her new owner has yet to need a major repair on any component. NOT APPLES TO APPLES! This thread was about what it COULD cost a newbie in a major yard in South Florida, not "how cheap I can do it".
I just happen to be one of those guys who admittedly goes overboard in the pursuit of "perfect". To consider a rebuild, I want everything renewed from the cooling system, to the exhausts, to the heat exchangers, starters and water pumps, to new hoses and clamps whether needed or not. The WORKS...not just the overhaul. The whole premise being to renew "everything" to "NEW" condition. Not just what it "needs".
We're looking at things from 2 different perspectives.
Far be it for me to tell someone they are wrong, but from my experience, new is not better than something that is working. I've seen far too many brand new things fail. If I rebuild a motor, I have no issue going forward with a used alternator or starter. In fact there's a good chance I'll trust that part more. Just because a part is brand new does not entitle it to the confidence of reliability.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
But considering your approach, the flaw would be to find yourself going to those lengths without walking away with a warranty. You'd better be holding one, or you're doing things wrong....
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pizzazsdaddy
... This thread was about what it COULD cost a newbie in a major yard in South Florida, not "how cheap I can do it".
I just happen to be one of those guys who admittedly goes overboard in the pursuit of "perfect". To consider a rebuild, I want everything renewed from the cooling system, to the exhausts, to the heat exchangers, starters and water pumps, to new hoses and clamps whether needed or not. The WORKS...not just the overhaul. The whole premise being to renew "everything" to "NEW" condition. Not just what it "needs".
We're looking at things from 2 different perspectives.
I didn't see that in this thread in fact he never even mentioned location and never said he wanted to pay the most or least. 60K to rebuild a pair of 8V92TAs would not be cheap either in cost or work performed. A comprehensive rebuild would include most of what you mentioned for that 60K. Paying more doesn't mean you got a better rebuild and paying less doesn't make the work cheap. It makes the owner smarter in my opinion. My mechanic is very reasonable but I use him because of his expertise and quality of work. I could pay much more but I doubt I'd get a better job.
As for looking at things in two perspectives I find this a bit insulting. You assume we are cheap and not doing things right because we don't overpay. I work hard for what I have and find no reason to waste it foolishly. I like things to be done right but I don't like being ripped off or overcharged. Any fool can pay top price but it takes some thought to find exceptional work and service for a fair price. Many of us here have had rebuilds done and a few here do it professionally. From your prior post you mention your boat having original hours. Have you ever done a rebuild on a pair of Detroits and if so how long ago was that? 60k is a very reasonable number not a cheap one. You definitely could get it done for less or more but the OP was asking if 60K was a reasonable estimate to use in his buying process. The over inflated service cost is a major factor in the deflated prices and demand for older boats.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
You are correct Jack, I am trying to understand the relative value of purchasing an otherwise solid boat but
with either run out or high time engines versus lower time power plants where the seller believes value remains. I think either can be good purchase if the real value is reflected in the price.
On a related topic, does the forum share info on good mechanics? I get the sense that perhaps this info is kept private so as not to impact the rates of the referring party. I know that geography plays a role, but these assets are portable.
I own an aircraft, and I can tell you that pilots share this type of info regularly. Not only to help out their compatriots but also to reward and encourage the service folks who do a good job at a fair price.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Don't buy a boat in need of major overhauls unless your planning on a lot of work and time to do it. While your in there there's generators and lots of other systems to go over.
It also depends on your use of the boat. Some People put 20 hours a year on the water and 30 more at the dock. Others run offshore fishing 200 hours a year. Most of us are in between.
If the engines have another 1000 hours of running left in them it could equate to 20 years of light use or 3 seasons of cruising /fishing.
As for good mechanic 's let us know your location and someone should speak up.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Most of us will publicly share info on good experiences, mechanics and otherwise. Bad experiences get shared by PMs or emails, for obvious reasons.
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
Isn't the crux of the matter 'caveat empter'. The engines could run longer than average or the could have a problem that is not being disclosed. Perhaps they were overheated, or some intermittent problem that isn't presenting on the inspection. Maybe the stabilizers are in need of overhaul, but you have to on the hook for a while to hear the grinding.
So one is trying to base a decision of several hundred thousand dollars on an inspection and the word of the seller. Wouldn' it be more prudent to discount the representations and just reflect the rebuild in the purchase price?
How much did these sell for new back in the late 80's?
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Re: Newbie looking for 52-58 MY
C'mon Saltshaker! I have NEVER tried to insult you or anyone else. Nor would I! In your case, you have decades of experience and knowledge. You have built a network of people you trust to do repairs at a fair price in YOUR AREA, and obviously, have the ability to make do it yourself repairs, ...which is something a New Buyer might not have. Think about THAT GUY!
I know many of you disagree with my "total restoration philosophy". Many of you are RIGHT, depending on your individual knowledge and expertise. My assumptions are based totally on a New Boat comparison. If Hatteras built a factory new 53 Motor Yacht today, that price tag would come close to $3.5 Million. Agreed?
I'm just trying to make the point, the you CAN take good old 53, put it in a quality yard for 8 months to a year, and essentially "remanufacture" it to "new" for about $750,000 in today's dollars...which still comes to only 20% of a comparable NEW BOAT PRICE! Let your admiral pick out your colors and décor and turn the key. I think it's the most fun way to do it, provided only the best people are hired to do the work! It doesn't make me an idiot!
With depreciation percentages being equal, and the cost of maintenance and ownership to the highest level being the same, a 3 year old " totally remanufactured" 53 would be worth about $350,000 or a loss of $350,000 after 3 years...VS a New Boat for $3.5 Million that 3 years later is worth $1.7 Million, or an actual loss of $1.8 Million.
Bottom Line...IN MY HUMBLE OPINION...The ONLY smart buy for a "Newbie" buyer is the most perfect, "like new" "survey correct" 53 you can find...for the smallest actual eventual loss at the end of the day. Nobody comes out of this alive! Many of you have made excellent points here, while others like "boatsb" only know how to put down and insult others.