I am considering having my hull painted this winter on 43C. No damage, just age. I heard $200 per foot was a good estimate. Any thoughts on a budget?
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I am considering having my hull painted this winter on 43C. No damage, just age. I heard $200 per foot was a good estimate. Any thoughts on a budget?
Geography has a lot to do with pricing. In NC where you are located, there seems to be a good number of qualified craftsmen to do such work. Pricing also depends somewhat on color, and definitely on the addition of striping at the sheer and/or boot. Multiple stripes and colors add up.
I had the hull of my 46 MY painted 2 years ago. I helped with prep and sanding, did the R&R on the stainless myself, etc. The bill was $6,000. net of haulout charges. That was a good deal.
$200/ft should be do able, if you're ready for some other "stuff" that will likely add to that number.
I'll say geography has a lot to do with the price! I was recently quoted $2000/ft :eek:
It's a good thing I was just curious....the boat doesn't need painting. :cool:
I got a price of $200.00 per foot for the hull, which you referenced, with Awlgrip here in the N East. Even with the great skills necessary to spray/apply Awlgrip & Imron, along with the cost of the paint(ing) materials themselves, 70+% of the cost is prep/labor -- the real "magic" of any outstanding paint job.
Asking the price for the topsides (gunnels up), brought a contented, far-away daydream look to the yard manager. Visions of tropical vacations coarsing through his mind and, I swear, reflections of palm trees in his eyes. Must be all the corners, angles, windows & the flybridge of an old trunkcabin 41 driving the labor $$'s! I shook him by the collar back to earth and told him 'never mind,' before he finished adding it up.
Even a "Maine Paint Job," rolling & tipping with a high quality acrylic enamel housepaint, which is surprisingly durable and comparable to high quality yacht enamels, is dependant on the preparation. You may find the difference in price for the yard to spray an acrylic enamal paint job, not that less expensive than the 2-part paints.
But a quality Awgrip/Imron paint job, even 10 years old with mediocre care, is a thing of beauty.
I've been working on the topsides from the toe rail up. Things are coming together pretty good for an old boat. When I have that all done the way I want it, I will price out having the hull sprayed. I have yet to see a hull job that I REALLY liked that was not sprayed. The rest you can work on and make very decent. The hull will set it all off if it's close to perfect IMHO.
The longer I wait, the less the hull job should be because most of the paint is really starting to JUMP off of the hull :eek: .
Between the work involved and the materials, there's no easy, or correct, answer. It's just what works depending upon where you are.
K :cool:
Agreed, From the rails up, my boat has been rolled and tipped. The hull having been sprayed does make a big difference.
I had actually started out to do a roll/tip on the hull as well. When I realized that the existing paint, which was failing badly, needed to come completely off to do either job-I decided to go ahead and do it right. As stated, the prep is the biggest number. Initially, I was going to do a "quick coat" to make her look more presentable. I'm really happy that I went ahead and just did it right. It looks great.
What I need to do now is to fine tune the roll and tip job on the cabin and decks. She really needs a fine sanding and another coat to really look good. At this point I cannot justify the cost of an AwlGrip job on the decks and cabin.
Find a yard that will allow you to do the prep work, sand the whole thing down with 60g then let the painter apply 545 primer, make sure he sands with 220g then some high build, sand 220g then 545 again and then color. put in your contract that you must inspect between processes, you want to inspect the sanding priming and cleaning. I knew to do this but neglected to follow my own rule and got burned real bad over the summer. The hull is the easiest thing to paint, just alot of surface. Take extra care aound fittings, I like to remove them for primer process then install for top coat. not good to have top coat under the fittings.
Going rate around this part of Florida is about $1k/ft. if you have the painter do everything, and the good ones will try to remove as much hardware as possible.
I guess here's one of those "religion" issues again, but here goes: I wouldn't be too quick to discount brushing the hull for even a top-quality job. I was REALLY from Missouri on doing any brushing at all vs. spraying, but several in the industry around here at top yards forced me to really look at what could be done. It was good enough that I had my entire boat brushed, and I'm pretty darned fussy. The paint is coming up on 4 years, and it all still looks great -- hull included. I don't see brush strokes on my hull. What honestly draws your eye much more (especially with brand new shiny 2-pt. polyurethane paint) are the imperfections in the factory Hatt glasswork. That's how good the paintwork was.
What you'll find with brushing is that it looks as flat as glass for many years, but eventually as the paint shrinks up some from the sun exposure drying it out, you'll start to get the brush strokes of the 1st coat coming through a LITTLE. But that's really a topsides thing, as it gets the most brutal direct exposure. The hull should be fine for much longer. With the money you should save from brushing, you could afford to recoat the topside sections that are getting the most direct exposure (i.e. upper house, toerail).
I'd say if you had a $3 million Merritt or Rybo or something, fine, go ahead and say goodbye to your boat for 3-6 mos and have it sprayed. But even Merritt will only do brush painting for their customers -- the only thing they spray are the new boats.
The $2000/ft price I was quoted is for sprayed awlgrip, waterline to tower, open bridge, two hardtops, etc., everything included.
there are painting contractors who work out of Crackerboy Boat yard in Ft Pierce FL. THese guys do a #1 job, 500/ foot is going rate for top side only, hull should be cheeper. they dont have paint shed, do open air but we have seen the work and it is nice. we decided to go cheeper and went somewhere else and got burned.
We pulled at Crackerboys this summer, good folks but they raised prices substantially just after we left.
Wow $2000x60'=$120,000 ouch!
As was noted the whole deal on quality of the job is in the prep, and there is a huge difference in labor cost between "ok" prep work and really great prep work. For the best-quality job ALL hardware should come off - including window frames. If it CAN be removed, it SHOULD be removed. Needless to say this is NOT cheap.
As such there's a huge price difference too between a "good" job and an "essentially looks like new" job.
There is very little difference in the actual PAINTING cost between spraying and roll/tip work. Indeed, spraying can be cheaper labor-wise on the actual paint application side.
Spraying is a win if you can do it. In many places its next to impossible due to environmental regulations unless you have a VERY LARGE paint building with the appropriate airhandling gear, and that stuff ain't cheap.
If possible, you want the boat inside for the job - no matter which way you have it done. Dirt in the air is MURDER on wet paint and there's no real way to prevent it outside. You can try, but it only takes ONE idiot to screw the job up. You can bet there will be much finger-pointing and trouble if there's contamination in the surface and you expect it to be done over!
I've seen numbers for what is sold as a "complete" job from the rail up at anywhere from $200 - $1000/ft. That's a HUGE difference in price, and there IS a difference in terms of how the job is going to be done - nearly all of it in prep.
I was quoted $250/ft to paint the hull (rub rail to waterline) on my 58yf. I am in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Before leaving Ft. Lauderdale in August, Cable Marine quoted $75,000 for an Awlgrip Matterhorn White paint job on our 61' MY.
I was always told if you have gel coat stick with it , you can get the shine back and a good compound and wax has always worked for me although I do need to wax every year minimum..was your boat already painted??
Carl, I think it's about 100% odds yours was painted, too. All Hatts were. At least that's what I've been told.Quote:
Originally Posted by CARL GUZMAN
Cable's one of the few yards left around here that will spray. Until I got to see the local guys' brushwork around here, I was pretty much decided to send the boat to them. They deal with a lot of megayachts being where they are, and I know the work is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawney1
Man, even at $75 an hour that is 1000 hours of labor, do you really think it takes 1000 hours to prep and paint your boat? I had my 48' boat estimated 2 years ago for paint down in Fort Robyoudale and it was $28K for imeron topsides and epoxy on the hull to the keel. Blisters repair was extra. Jackson Marine on the river, their paint work was excellent but they used a lot of subs for mechanical work and I felt that they ripped me off on that, but their paint facility was really good. I would have done it then but they could not say how much the blister repairs were going to cost (the man said it could cost as much as the paint job) so I decided to wait until I got it to NC. They had a 4 man prep and paint crew and said they could do it in two weeks. That is 320 man hours at $87.00 an hour including paint, or $583 a foot. I would think that anything much more is just plain highway robbery! If you can't find a decent price where you are, you can afford a lot of diesel fuel for what these guys are quoting. You could certainly afford to bring your boat to NC and get it done for a more reasonable price. A lot of marine businesses have migrate from Florida up to NC. Lower labor costs and land costs compared to there. Plus you can visit Sam's Marine and the Hatteras factory, and you can certainly justify saving money in the process.
I did rubrail up this summer with the boat in the water (hence the low engine hours this year) ... I had done most of the prep last fall. I used Interlux Perfection and painted with a foam roller (actually lots and lots of foam rollers) ... I think the result is pretty good. The hull is pretty well sanded and will get the same treatment in early spring before launch.
As for you folks in the Long Island, NY area I can recommend the guy that I helped (he knew what he was doing way better than I did) and he is reasonable, dependable and does a good job.
What color Perfection did you use? I tried the "cream " which I was told by the Interlux people was a match for Hatteras off white. It is not . I had used the Interthane plus in Hat off white and butted the new Perfection to it on the deck. The Interthane is very close to 1981 Hat OW ,the Perfection is way too yellow.......Pat
In the Perfection, I used snow white on cabin sides and Mattahorn on the decks. Will use Mattahorn on the hull too. I'm gonna recoat the forward deck also (over the nonskid coat), as the nonskid powder doesn't allow the paint to flow well. This however was the only problem that we encountered.
Yup all Hats were painted except the 32' express and convertable. They wanted to hold the price down on those little gems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul45c
Note that there are TWO Interlux Hatteras off-whites. You need to get the right one to match the oem color based on the model year of the boat. I can't remember what model year Hatt changed the color but one of the two interlux paints is an exact match for the Imron on the boat. Our boat was repaingted in the mid 90s with oem Imron. I've done some minor touch up work and you can't see the transition between the 10 year old Imron and the new interlux.
Another thing to note is that if your boat was repainted, it could have been repainted with either of the oem colors, depending on what the owner wanted.
Mike, which Interlux paint are you using? How is it wearing? In the Brightside single part Poly, the color match for my 77 is #3208. Don't remember what the other Hatteras off white number is. Have also only done very small artist brush touch ups, but seems to be a perfect color match with nice gloss and lays out with no brush strokes. I need to do a few larger areas such as the brow over the cabin front windows and the cabin door exterior, and am wondering if I should use Imron for those. If so I'll have to reseach prior threads I remember seeing, as I have no experience applying that product. Any thoughts? Regards, Bob K
Paul,Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul45c
I never seriously considered having Cable do the work. The paint on our boat is generally in good shape. There are a few areas, however, which require some attention and need to be repainted. The PO had the boat repainted in 2000 with the Awlgrip, but in certain areas the prep work was not good and the paint is flaking, chipping and splitting, especially on the salon aft doors, and areas on the flybridge. That $75,000 quote came in the midst of Cable providing a price estimate to prep and repaint those damaged areas. Considering our experience with Cable over the 3 summer months they worked on our boat, I would NEVER use them again for anything.
Bertramp, when you recoat the forward deck, be sure to degloss the paint. I did what you are talking about a bunch of years back. The first trip out after that was to Block. The decks were wet when we pulled in and the Admiral went forward to set up the lines. I thought I was going to lose her!
The glossy paint film fills in the voids in between the "sand" and it is definitely "slippery when wet"! Deglossing and thinning a little solves this.
Happy T-Day!
K
I am having my entire boat painted this winter. I am removing all the hardware, window frames, hardtop and pipework. I am also having a teak sole installed in the cockpit. I will replace anything that needs replacing, like the bow rail, hatches, glass, and misc. hardware. I am going all white with no blue lines. I think this will give her a modern look. I am using J&J marine fabrication in somerset MA. They just completed a new state of the art building for spraying large boats. They use awlgrip paint. Tempature and a dust free emviroment makes for a better job. They are letting me participate in removing the hardware, I will let the experts do the prepwork. I have Seen alot of J&J's work and they considered the one of the best around theses parts. I will post pictures soon. wayne
I am refitting a 1965 41' convertible. Complete rebuild of the dd8v53's and a lot of paint. We pulled the window frames and cleaned and re felted them. Pulled the engines and genset and cleaned up and reinsulated the engine room. Epoxied engine room, and it sparkles. Paint from the boot stripe all the way up with awlgrip cost right at 20k. This also included refitting the cockpit with water tight hatches and and reglassing the cockpit as well. This was a spray job that looks fantastic. All hardware was removed except thru hulls and pipe half tower. Also changed the look of the air intakes. What is your opinion? Ready to drop in the engines very soon and start on the inside of the house.
Sweeeeeet!
Mtadamek, Wow!! I hope mine comes out as nice as yours. Did you find any rot in the cockpit core ? I know I have some that will have to be cut out and re-cored. Did the window frames come off hard ? Looks like you have all new glass along with those freshly paint frames. Cant wait to start on mine..
Window frames were absolute hell. They came out easy enough. They are split horizontally. So you are going to need some help getting them out. Once they are out you can dissamble them and put the glass someplace safe. Start by sandblasting the frames. If you are lucky you don't have too much corrosion, but I was not so lucky. This is a joint venture between my Father and Brother. My Father is a retired engineer and has had a lot of experience with aircraft tool design among other things. He made me some special little tools to remove the felt. A set of cheap dental picks helped out the most though. The oxidation on the aluminum tracks for the frames is like concrete. Some acid used to clean aluminum with help a little, but for the most part it is just time consuming picking to get them clean. They have to be perfect for the new felts to work. Pick up some new felts and plastic window slide material from Sam's Marine. They have it in stock. Use JB weld to fix up any pits or holes in the frames and sand it down ready for paint. After they are painted, refelt and install the windows at the boat. I had all the windows retinted before I reinstalled. This makes for a clean excellent job. If I had to do it all over again, I think I would replace with one piece of tinted plexi, due to the fact that they still do not slide really well and will probably still leak. Probably never open them up anyway, but I wanted to go back original as can be. This task was very time consuming, but I think it really brings back the original look to a vessel that still has the looks of even some of today's boats. I am going to post some pictures of the engine overhauls my Father has done. I will start a new post, so tell me what you think.
No rot in the cockpit floor. There was some under the doors, but it was an easy fix.
I hate to rain on your parade but you cant stop window frame corrosion. there are going to be inclusions, which are little caves, full of the stuff. the hole may be the size of a pin but the cavity will be much larger and will grow. I did the same thing, sandblasting frames etc. used dremel with carbide tip to grind out all the inclusions i could find, drilled all the screw holes bigger, counter sunk all and then filled them in. we did not use screws on the frames, only 5200.
The one thing you should have done is soak the frames with dupont epoxy zinc primer, then fill the holes with jb weld. The zinc oxide will slow the corrosion process. mine are in place now for 2 yrs and thus far no corrosion has shown its face.
i only did the front saloon windows, replaced the sliding side ones with new fixed frames, Waterway Systems made them.
FWIW, David Pascoe recommends having corrosion holes & pits rewelded. I, too, used an epoxy-type repair on the old screw holes that used to hold the teak blocks that kept the window from sliding back (common place for corrosion), and it's holding up OK, but I've got to say if I were doing it all over again I would not try painting the window frames. My painter was REALLY meticulous in prepping those frames well, and still I'm starting to see some corrosion bubbling through. It's been close to 4 yrs. since I got mine painted. That's a little disappointing to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by 67hat34c
I know the paint is a really sleek look, but I would go back to the old school bronze anodized finish. After getting the pits & holes rewelded, you'd get the added benefit of the acid dip all the anodizing shops do to prep for their process. And, I'd either drill & tap the frames from behind to keep the exterior screw free, or I'd use silicone bronze tapping screws from the exterior. And besides, with tinted glass, the bronze-colored frame doesn't stand out so much.
Paul I tried to weld the holes, only had mig and it made a mess. need Tig welder to do proper job. Our new frames were drilled and tapped on the inside for clamping . once 5200 dried claims off and fill in the holes system worked perfect. have series of photo if anyone wants to see, file too large for this site