Cost of Painting Hull

[Liquid Asset]

I have a guy who has sprayed imron quite a bit, and he has given me an estimate to paint our hull with imron while we are in the yard. I was woundering if any of you know what you paid per foot to have the hull of your boat painted. I think it's a good price, but I am not sure, so I would like to compare.

He quoted me $100 a foot plus materials. This seems ok to me, since materials is a fixed cost no matter who paints the boat. But just curious to see if it is worth it or if we will decide to move forward wtih ti. Thanks.

[hatterass]

I just got a quote to do my hull. that seams to be the going rate. it was 450 for materials and around 3500 for one side of the boat.
Dave

[garyd]

I have heard of prices up to and over $1,000.00 per foot so $100.00 per foot sounds too good to be true.

I guess it depends on exactly what he is going to do. etc etc..

garyd

[MikeP]

Garyd - I've heard the same - up to 1000/ft but it was the entire boat, not just the hull.

I'm assuming that the questions re hull painting refer to just the hull of the boat, ie, below the rub rail?, right?

[34Hatt]

That is a very good price as long as he does do a nice job have you seen his other work?




I just got a quote to do my hull. that seams to be the going rate. it was 450 for materials and around 3500 for one side of the boat.
Dave

For only one side If so that would be 200 per ft when quoting price per ft is for both side's of the hull. Dave are you really only doing the one side???

[ohiohatteras]

PM sent

[hatterass]

Dan,
the other side is fine. So they said I could do the one side this year and the other side the next. the paint it self is in good condition and doesn't need to be done. it's just the cracking in the hull making me do this. Do you think I should do the hull all at once? Not to spend money I don't have right know but...?
Dave
PS the cracking problem is only on the side that faces the river and the sun.( we are on the outside dock in the river)

[SKYCHENEY]

Obviously just painting the hull requires much less work than painting the topsides too. Most of the items that would need to be removed or taped off would be above the rub rail. Plus, once you get them off, then they would have to be rebed and put back on. Also, the topsides have more curves and irregular surfaces that could be tricky to paint.

That said, I still can't believe that number to do just the hull. If his work looks good, go for it. I just paid $300 to repaint one pilothouse door.

[Brian Degulis]

That's a good price for the hull very good and I like the fact that he is not quoting complete with materials this way there is no incentive to go light and save paint. I would ask him if he intends to completly protect your superstructure from overspray. Also what about other boats or objects nearby make sure he is responsible for damage from overspray get it in writing (assuming he's spraying) I would also find out what system fillers primers etc he will be using.

I don't find the price "to good to be true" assuming your hull is not beat to death and in need of a lot of fairing. I do think it's very competitive so you should make sure you know what you will be getting.

Brian

[SeaEric]

I had my hull painted two years ago. I helped with prep, took the stainless off myself, and generally made life easier for the yard. It had multiple primers, more sanding, the multiple finish coats. We also did a green stripe at the sheer. I put the stainless and vents back on myself, along with the platform. The boat was shrink wrapped for protection from the rub rail up during painting. Awlcraft 2000 is the finish paint and my bill was $6000. materials and labor for a 46' Matthews MY. She looks spectacular.

[hatterass]

I'm afraid to do any of the work on the hull. last time I did that and got the topside ready for paint I think the yard charged me for my labor.
Dave

[Liquid Asset]

I have seen this Guys work. In the past he has done a fair ammount of fiberglass work for me and it has been Superb. He has not decided whether he will spray or whether he will Roll and tip the paint. He told me he has done both in the past and it just depends on where the yard puts us.

My hull is not beat to crap, so there will not be a lot of work, But he will have to remove the stipes because we are nto putting them back on. We will be painting the transom Black, so that added a little extra cost.

I guess we have to make a decision, but it seems you me from what you have told me you all have heard that the price is fair. If we do it, i will let you all know how it goes.

[Brian Degulis]

Definetly try to go for the spray and if the guy knows what he's doing he should be shooting for that also. I would be curious what yard in our area will allow you to do that. If you don't want to shout it out please PM me.

Brian

[MDUNLAVY]

We quote jobs for painting based on the amount of labor - some boats take more work, some less, so a $/ft is not a great way to compare costs between different boats because they may require more or less work.

An important thing to remember on painting hulls, is 75% (or more) of the work is in the prep. The amount of prep (or lack of) will greatly effect the quality and life of the paint job.

If we had to do an "average" amount of prep, mask off the complete superstructure, and spray the boat in our works building with a quality line of paint such as awlgrip or alexseal, I would say $350 per foot (includes both sides of the boat) "turn key" for hull sides only including all materials, haul out charges, etc. (a 48' boat would be $16,800k). This would also include the transom name in a basic design/font. This would be for sand, prime, sand, then top coat type of hullsides.

For only 1 side of the boat and no transom, the price would be less than half or less than $175 per foot turn key.

I hope this helps,

Michael

[Maynard Rupp]

The orignal posts on this thread talked about the painter using Imron. Later on it was mentioned that he may elect to "roll and tip depending on the yard". I love our Imron and would refinish with that material. I don't believe that Imron can be rolled and tipped though. Imron is already at spraying consistency when you buy the paint. I have also heard bad stuff about Awlcraft 2000. A friend had his new 49' sailboat painted darek blue with that product and the fenders wore the paint off to the white gellcoat. It wasn't scratched it looked like someone just rubbed through the paint, ouch! The yard that sprayed it said that the paint was his choice and they had recomended the, more expensive, Awlgrip. The finish was beautiful, but wore off in one season.

[hatterass]

Not to mess up this thread anymore they I have But that is what I was worried about on the Algrip. I just had the topside done and my dock lines wore through the paint in one season. that is why I was asking about the Imron and if it is more durable. Sorry again for mixing the threads.
Dave

[Brian Degulis]

Awlgrip is no more expensive than Awlcraft. The Awlgraft is softer and polishes easily similiar to Imron. The Awlgrip is much harder and considered a no maintenance coating it will resist fender scuffs and other abrasions much better than Awlcraft or Imron. Imron is a brusable product but like awlgrip the catylist and thinners are diffrent. Awlgrip is brushable Awlcraft is not.

Brian

[MikeP]

" Awlgrip is much harder and considered a no maintenance coating it will resist fender scuffs and other abrasions much better than Awlcraft or Imron."

Brian, what do you base that statement on? Their are Imron paint jobs on boats on this site that are 15+ years old and, according to the owners and the pics, still look nearly new. What actual evidence do you have that Awlgrip is superior?

12 year old Imron NEVER waxed:

[Liquid Asset]

My boat has the origional paint job. In stating that, it means that our paint job is 26 years old. The one thing I have to say is that I do know that if we gave it a good wash/buff/wax, it will shine very well. I just does not last more than a year, so subsequently we need to paint to reduce the maintenance that we are having to do on a yearly basis. Plus, we are interested in changing the hull color, which can only be done by painting.

From What I know about Awlgrip, it is not a superior product, but it is not less of one that Imron. It is a completlly different product and people must make a choice on how they want to do maintenance and what they are willing to do with their boat. For us, Imron will be more durable and it can be buffed to restore it towards the end of its life. We like that part of Imron paint and that is why we want to stick with it. I guess it may be personal preferance, but I would not call Either superior to one another since their forulation is completly different. Just my opion.

[Liquid Asset]

MikeP,
That paint job looks incredible, adn I can only hope that ours looks half that good after 12 years of abuse from us. I would venture to say that we are not as nice to our boat as you are.

[Brian Degulis]

" Awlgrip is much harder and considered a no maintenance coating it will resist fender scuffs and other abrasions much better than Awlcraft or Imron."

Brian, what do you base that statement on? Their are Imron paint jobs on boats on this site that are 15+ years old and, according to the owners and the pics, still look nearly new. What actual evidence do you have that Awlgrip is superior?

12 year old Imron NEVER waxed:

Mike I never said superior that's a matter of opinon what I said was That Awlgrip is Harder. If you do a little research you will see that is a fact. Awlgrip is considered a no maintenance coating because it maintanes it's shine from a very hard resin layer that floats to the surface as it dries. Awlcraft or imron do not the shine is basically in the paint they are both softer than Awlgrip. The advantage to them is that because they are softer they can be polished very nicely and come up looking new. The dis advantage is they are not as abrasion resistant and will require polishing through they're life and they don't hold up to abrasion as well. This is why Awlgrip is always the choice for deck coatings great abrasion resistance.

If you put both products side by side and did no polishing at all the Awlgrip would easily outlast the Imron
The problem is that when Awlgrip Fades out you can't get near as good a result in polishing and bringing it back as you can with Imron. It can be polished and made to look better but not like softer coatings. 99% of the time when an Awlgrip job fades in 5 or 6 years it's because not enough paint was aplied it's critical to get the correct mil thickness in ordere to have a good resin barrier on the surface. There is a boat in my area that I did in Awlgrip around 12 years ago it has never been polished or sealed just cleaned. The shine is still very good on everthing except the front of the flybridge. The way the boat sits that area gets non stop sun it still has some shine but has definetly faded.

Brian

[MikeP]

Here's my problem with this...

You are stating that Awlgrip will "easily" outlast Imron but you are not providing any support for that. If you have some personal examples or appropriate internet references, then you should post them. I have posted my personal experience with Imron plus there are statements by others on this site that Imron has lasted 15+ years. So it seems to me that statements that Awlgrip lasts longer should at least have some equal or better anecdotal evidence to go along with it.

I'M not saying that Awlgrip might not be as good or (possibly) better but all I'm seeing to support that are statements that it's better with nothing to corroborate them. I did do some web research and found several people talking about how good their Awlgrip looked 6 years later but that's not anywhere close the the 12-15 year league that has been reported here by Imron users. You may have some personal experience that has convinced you Awlgrip is superior; if so, you should explain it. I'm certainly not adverse to switching to ANY product that offers better performance than one I am using.

[TedZ]

FWIW

Both Imron and Awlgrip can be touched up and repaired by an experienced professional. There are, however, significant differences between these two linear polyurethane (LPU) paints. These particular brand names also happen to be the best-known examples of the two main classes of LPU coatings: the acrylic polyurethanes (Imron, Awlcraft 2000, Interspray 800, PPG Concept, Sikkens Yachtcryl) and the polyester polyurethanes (Awlgrip, Interspray 900, Sterling, etc.) Both acrylic and polyester LPU coatings produce a beautiful wet-look shine. The chief difference is the polyester LPU yields a harder, more weather- and UV-resistant finish so your boat stays glossy longer with Awlgrip than with Imron. Many smaller shops recommend the acrylic LPU because it’s a lot easier to work with, especially if they don't have a dedicated paint booth. An acrylic LPU dries faster and, because it’s a softer paint, it’s easier to perform the after-the-fact buffing required to force a temporary gloss onto a mediocre spray job full of dust and dull areas. Awlgrip, on the other hand is quite unforgiving and it’s a lot harder to get good results in marginal painting conditions. In our yard, we use Awlgrip for major work in our paint booth where conditions are ideal and use acrylic urethanes for smaller jobs (boot stripes, transoms) in our main shop and at our service docks where bugs and dust are a factor. Both types can be repaired by spraying a patch or brush touch-up and then wet sanding and buffing to blend it with the surrounding finish. Special blending additives help. One of the biggest problems in repair work is color matching and our experience is that an Awlgrip hull color stays stable and fade-free longer than an acrylic. This means it’s more easily matched years later with a stock color fresh out of the can. Because of the extra hardness of the coating the Awlgrip, repair is a bit more difficult to buff and blend but not dramatically so for an experienced technician.

Ted

[MikeP]

Ted are you also "Nick Bailey?"

I ask this because your response is word-for-word from:

http://www.diy-boat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1013&Itemid=136

If that's also you or your shop, fine but that's not at all clear in your post.

[krush]

if those ain't his words...gotta love plagiarizers! LOL

[Brian Degulis]

Here's my problem with this...

You are stating that Awlgrip will "easily" outlast Imron but you are not providing any support for that. If you have some personal examples or appropriate internet references, then you should post them. I have posted my personal experience with Imron plus there are statements by others on this site that Imron has lasted 15+ years. So it seems to me that statements that Awlgrip lasts longer should at least have some equal or better anecdotal evidence to go along with it.

I'M not saying that Awlgrip might not be as good or (possibly) better but all I'm seeing to support that are statements that it's better with nothing to corroborate them. I did do some web research and found several people talking about how good their Awlgrip looked 6 years later but that's not anywhere close the the 12-15 year league that has been reported here by Imron users. You may have some personal experience that has convinced you Awlgrip is superior; if so, you should explain it. I'm certainly not adverse to switching to ANY product that offers better performance than one I am using.

Mike one more time I'm not saying that Awlgrip is Better as I said before that's a matter of opinion. What I said was that without any polishing Awlgrip will look better longer. Now that's not my opinion that the nature of the product and the way it works. Awlgrip is formulated to be a no maintenance coating Imron is not but Imron can be polished and brought back with like new results Awlgrip can't. Both coatings due what they are suposed to do but they work diffrently. Saying one is better than the other is like asking what's the best varnish ask ten people and you will get ten diffrent answers and they are all right or wrong depending on how you look at it. The skill of the painter the atmospheric conditions how the boat is used how much sun etc. Will all affect the life span leading some to believe one is better than the other that's just opinion and it's subjective. But there are diffrences that aren't opinion they're fact.

Brian

[MikeP]

Thanks for the additional response, Brian. I understand your point.

Re Varnish - Heck, EVERYBODY KNOWS that Epifanes is the ONLY varnish!!!

;)

[Walter P]

Gentlemen,

Regarding the life span of either Imron or Awlgrip, I have had both over the years and as stated by you folks both have their benefits and shortcomings. My first Awlgrip job was done in the late 80's in Alabama by a well know yard and the job looked great.... for a while. Within a few years it started to dull and in some areas over aluminum it actually peeled. A few years later with another Hatteras - this time painted on the Chesapeake (on Kent Island), the contractor applied many additional coats and the result was magnificent. The boat was sold about 9 years ago to a friend so therefore I get to see it often. The shine is still blinding and flawless. All that is done is he applies a coat of Awlcare polymar annually. I lost touch with the painter but would love to find him again. His name by the way was (is) Mike Stein, so if anyone knows of his whereabouts, let me know...

Walt

[TedZ]

When i copied and pasted the excerpt i intended to include the Author, apparently Nick Bailey. My apologies for the confusion. That is also the "for what it is worth", comment as i don't know the author either. Agreed with him though.

Ted

[TedZ]

BTW MikeP if you knew the Bailey's post was there why didn't you point to it as the "support" you were looking for contradicting your position?

I don't think there is a painter alive who has ever tried to "fix" an Awlgrip ding that doesn't know that the polyester polyurethanes are harder than the acrylic (non-linear) two component paints. As we have said here many, many times, "If you are mixing hardener 1:3 you are using a softer paint than the 1:1 mixes." They are both wonderful paints for our use. I personaly prefer the 1:3 paints because i touch up or repaint some every year and the blending is hard enough with the Imron types. I find it impossible - my tools and skill level - to make Awlgrip repairs that look good for 4 - 6 years.

As we quote forum entries regularly, i liked what Nick Bailey - whoever he is - said but i did mean to copy his name.

Ted

[Maynard Rupp]

I have now seen 2 examples of fenders rubbing through the finish with Awlcraft.
I probably have some perfect examples of the durability of Imron and Awlgrip. My 35' racing sailboat was painted with Awlgrip in 1986 by a very reputable group in Sarnia Ontario called Captain's Yacht Services. It still looks OK, but wheeling it with Finessit II doesn't bring the shine back very well. Our '86 Hat has the original Imron and still looks like new. I wheel it once a year. I am now using a 3M polish called "foam pad polishing glaze-light" #05995. This stuff works just like Finesseit II but stays wet longer and is a bit easier to towel off. Either product works great and keeps our Imron like new. I have touched up our boat with Imron using only the paint # to buy the paint. The match has been perfect with both the white and blue.:)

[MikeP]

"BTW MikeP if you knew the Bailey's post was there why didn't you point to it as the "support" you were looking for contradicting your position?"

A valid question!

I never heard of/saw the Baileys post until you posted your response, which I thought was very good. Then I decided to do some searches of my own on Awlgrip vs Imron to see other views and Bailey's article showed up.

Re those searches, one yacht site poster mentioned that clear evidence that Awlgrip was "better" is because Boeing uses it on their aircraft. But they don't. They use Imron. All it requires to determine that is to do a search and find this quote from Boeing's approved vendor list for aircraft and helicopters which can be found at:
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/doingbiz/tcmdhs/splrdj.pdf (choppers)
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/doingbiz/tcmdhs/hms.pdf (aircraft)

Frankly, I don't care what Boeing uses, MY problem with all this is that EVEN when a search is made, it doesn't mean the info found is even valid. The guy who stated that Boeing uses Awlgrip is wrong so how can I assume ANYTHING he says is correct? Perhaps Boeing USED to use Awlgrip. But if so, the poster should have said that or, said, something like "as far as I know..." or "as I recall..." It requires a LOT of searching to even begin to separate the wheat from the chaff. And, in the end, you still have to decide whether the info applies in your situation.

Oh well, I seem to have digressed here but bad information seems to be rampant...NOTE: I am not saying that about "your" post re Imron/awlgrip, I am not disputing the issue re the paints themselves.

You might want to check out my Brian Surgery Site!

just kidding ;)

[dmichaudri]

I have restored / upgraded 5 different boats over the past 12 years. I have been given quotes for a 53 MY for awlgrip or Imoron (my choice) for $150 to $200 for the entire hull (topsides below the rail) by a couple of very good smaller yards in Maine. I have used these yards before and they are indeed a pleasure to work with and very thoughtful people.

The key is the weight of the yacht and the height. One yard has a 30 ton travellift and the other uses a tractor pulled trailer (on an old marine railway bed) that can go a bit higher. Thus, I think the 53 is about the comfortable limit for either yard.

Regarding the height, with a radar arch bridge a 53 MY would not fit inside their barns. The apporach is to erect a temporary building and do the work that way.

If one want to obtain the best value, the approach would be to arrainge for the yard to so the work after the first week of July, back in the water mid-August. They all have a slow 6-8 week period in the summer and hence will sharpen their pencils a bit. The key is value, not just price, and to look at some of the yards' completed work and talk to owners.

In my estimation the Maine yards are some of the best ways to go (just stay away from Hinckley unlesss you drive a Bentley) for high quality value price workmanship. Once the yacht is relaunched you can cruise in reasonable comfort until mid September before heading south or laying the yacht up.

See you on the water.

[TedZ]

I understand MikeP.

Nice answer BTW.

Thanks.
Ted

[Brian Degulis]

Gentlemen,

Regarding the life span of either Imron or Awlgrip, I have had both over the years and as stated by you folks both have their benefits and shortcomings. My first Awlgrip job was done in the late 80's in Alabama by a well know yard and the job looked great.... for a while. Within a few years it started to dull and in some areas over aluminum it actually peeled. A few years later with another Hatteras - this time painted on the Chesapeake (on Kent Island), the contractor applied many additional coats and the result was magnificent. The boat was sold about 9 years ago to a friend so therefore I get to see it often. The shine is still blinding and flawless. All that is done is he applies a coat of Awlcare polymar annually. I lost touch with the painter but would love to find him again. His name by the way was (is) Mike Stein, so if anyone knows of his whereabouts, let me know...

Walt

That's the key with awlgrip to build up enough mill thickness in one spraying operation. The resin layer floats to the top as it flows out if you let that first coat dry to the point where it is very tacky then apply more the second coat blends into the first bringing (theoreticaly) twice the resin layer up to the surface. You can do as many coats as you like I generaly do a total of 4 or 5 the last coat is thinned with a slower reducer like 50% brushing reducer mixed with the spraying reducer. I try to hit that point where it flows out completly but doesn't sag. When done this way it will have a initial shine not obtainable with imron it almost looks like you could jump into it and the (no maintenance) lifespan will be very good.

If I were rolling and tipping I would not use Awlgrip. Because you must wait for each coat to dry you will only get the resin layer from the last coat you put on. It works and it looks good but it won't have near the life of a good spray job.

Brian