View Full Version : Oil Change Pump Redux
Here is what I need- 12V permanently mounted, reversible gear oil pump that will pump cold oil into my engines without blowing the breaker. I'll even settle for a 120V pump that does the same that is small enough to be mounted instead of the existing Reverso pump. I have read all of the prior posts. I just finished changing the oil yesterday and, needless to say, the Reverso would not pump the cold oil in and the clearance to hold the 5 gallon buckets is just not there. I know I can buy singles but I prefer not too. After all of the posts, has ANYONE found the holy grail of 12v reversible gear oil pumps that work to pump oil IN?
yachtsmanbill
10-22-2007, 09:35 AM
Its been my experience that small DC pumps aren't strong enough to pump cold oil. Mine is a 1/2 HP AC unit with a hydraulic gear type pump. For 15 gallons of cold oil in a 12-71, I can expect 20 minutes. If its warm, I would expect considerably less. Although mine isn't reversible, I swap the inlet and outlet and I am good to go. This could easily be done with valves as well.
As far as reverso units are concerned, they're OK for a water bed, or wash down pump. but thats about it IMHO.
The other type to consider is a positive displacement vane type pump. Moving oil is dealing with hydraulics and that takes a specially suited pump. ws
Bill - apparently, Reverso is now making an AC pump for this purposes. Do you have any familiarity with that one?
yachtsmanbill
10-22-2007, 10:29 AM
I cant help you there... I have 3 reversos for oil change and FO transfer and they are all toys (1974 vintage!). The small jabsco impellers are ok for water and special material impellers for FO because of its viscosity. The oil change pump was a farce. The oil needed to be HOT to pump and the impeller couldnt take it.
I prefer to use stuff thats suited for industrial applications. Let us know what you find out about their new stuff. ws
Come on guys. Does anyone use a pump to pump fresh (and cold) 40 weight oil from a 5 gallon pail into their engines (other than Bill). If so, what pump do you use?
Peter Mitchell
10-22-2007, 02:26 PM
Come on guys. Does anyone use a pump to pump fresh (and cold) 40 weight oil from a 5 gallon pail into their engines (other than Bill). If so, what pump do you use?
Oberdorfer makes a 115 AC volt 1/3 HP Reversible Oil Transfer Pump that will easily move 40 weight oil from a 5 gallon pail into your engine. A switch on the top of the pump allows you to change direction of the flow - pump old oil out/pump new oil in.
skrmetta90
10-22-2007, 02:45 PM
I have a 12V reverso that kicks ass. It has no problem moving any oil. I'll get the model number tonight and post it for you.
yachtsmanbill
10-22-2007, 02:45 PM
I am pretty sure mine is not an Oberdorfer, but the quality is as good as theirs. (and theirs is >good!) Any gear type pump should work. It gets hooked up to the reverso manifold (soon to be moved). I also use this for pumping antifreeze throught the deck fittings and all systems requiring winterizing! ws
SKYCHENEY
10-22-2007, 06:21 PM
Oberdorfer makes a 115 AC volt 1/3 HP Reversible Oil Transfer Pump that will easily move 40 weight oil from a 5 gallon pail into your engine. A switch on the top of the pump allows you to change direction of the flow - pump old oil out/pump new oil in.
I have one of the Oberdorfers that came on the boat. It seems to work fine. It is permanently mounted with a brass manifold on top with ball valves for port and stbd engine, port and stbd trans, and gen oil. I have a 120v outlet next to it to plug it into. I can't complain about it except it leaks a little oil right at the housing seal. I may need to get a rebuild kit for it or just make a new gasket.
DLCameron2
10-22-2007, 06:24 PM
Hi JLR:
On our 43DC I installed a GROCO gear pump and manifold. Much better than the cheezy reverso I have now on the 53. Check out their pumps. I think you will be happy. Let me know. Have fun!
DC
Thanks all for your help.
I just got off the telephone with Reverso. They said to me that replacing my impeller pumps with gear pumps (whether AC or DC) would not really that much of a difference in pumping the cold oil in and the breakers popping. There suggestion (which of course makes sense) is to get the cold oil that is to pumped in to room temperature 70-75 degrees and the problem disappears. I guess putting the 5 gallon buckets in the engine room with some heat overnight would solve all of the problems. Inelegant but inexpensive as well.
yachtsmanbill
10-23-2007, 09:26 AM
You can also get a magnetic oil pan heater to warm the stuff up in the engine as well. Nevertheless, 40W is 40W. As far as the new stuff is concerned, grab a blow drier and warm the stuff up OR get a real pump and let IT do the work IMHO! ws
MikeP
10-23-2007, 11:06 AM
I have a built-in 120vac gear type oil change pump. It won't pump cold 40 wt oil. Usually I just pump out the old oil after warming up the engine and add new oil through the oil filler on the valve cover. It's kind of a PITA but since it doesn't occur very often, it's not that big a deal to me. I personally wouldn't expend any electrical (or other) power just to heat new pails of oil.
One thing that I have thought about but haven't fooled with is larger hoses. The oil change hoses on our boat are 3/8." I'd bet that larger hoses would make a notable difference in the ability to pump cold oil.
Another one of those "someday I'll look into it" things.
yachtsmanbill
10-23-2007, 01:45 PM
Ya know, Ive noticed with my pump that I use 3/8 in and 1/4 out and the pump has a chance to build a little pressure and hence a bit more volume.
I bet 1/2 and 3/8 would really help as well. I as well, refill through the valve cover with 1 gallon jugs. Once your at that point, its no more trouble than changing the filters etc. ws
Just from a cost perspective (as if that really matters given what we spend on our boats anyway), I figure it cost me about $20 more per change to buy singles rather than pails. I guess it would take more than 5 or 6 years, or more, to break even if I bought a new pump. I just hate holding those singles in the cold weather and watching the molasses come out. Now, if truth be told, what I would really like is a fitting that screws onto the pail with some sort of disposable hose that goes to the bottom of the pail so that the oil slimed hose can get tossed and the fitting to the top of the pail just unscrews.
yachtsmanbill
10-23-2007, 02:08 PM
Theres an advantage to doing a lot of the nasty stuff in january when theres no rush. This is Godzillas blow drier. 150,000 btu propane with an outside air source. No odor, no fumes, and on a thermostat. A 40 lb cylinder lasts about 20-30 hours at 75F depending on the ambient. It also makes everything warm to the touch so varnish and paint are dry by the next morning.
SAFETY NOTE !! I always close the gas AND unplug the boat AND turn of the DC mains when I go home in the evening. ws
Good for marshmellows too.
yachtsmanbill
10-23-2007, 02:55 PM
In Chicago its Italian SAH-SIDGE and toasted bread, slathered with bilge grease !! LOL ws
krush
10-23-2007, 04:15 PM
another option would be to plumb in a circuit that recirculates from the exit of the pump back to the intake. If you aim for like 50% recirc, the pumping of the oil may generate enough heat to warm it up. It would take a little experimenting on valve settings, but I bet you could get it to work.
The problem with cold oil is that the motor just can't handle the "bite" the impeller is taking out. Poor motor, it can't cash the checks the impeller is writing!
yachtsmanbill
10-23-2007, 05:22 PM
Youre right with the oil warming up, but the co-efficient of heat loss versus quantity would take days to accomplish 15 gallons. My 1/2 hp unit loads down and then pumps ok. A little slow but I set it and forget it. Have a couple of spuds and shes done. Thats 40W at 40F - all done in about 20 minutes. Next time is in the water with the mains HOT! ws
krush
10-23-2007, 06:08 PM
My suggestion was merely to cure the circuit breaker trip problem which is the result of too much current draw.
I finally broke down and sprung for a Groco 12v reversible gear pump. The pump I have not does not reverse which makes it a messy operation to switch the hoses. It needed to be primed too frequently which also made for a mess. I figure the gear pump may help with the cold oil going in but I will likely need to heat it up anyway. It's really just an excuse to work on the boat when she is decommissioned--the first of several of these non-essential but fun little projects. I also may up the amperage of the breaker if it is not a 20 amp breaker now. I figure that the existing wiring can support a 20 amp breaker even if a 15 amp breaker is in there now. I won't really know for a year until I change the oil again.
King Size
11-01-2007, 11:47 AM
Dont you dare swap a 20A breaker for a 15A unless you check wire gauge
first. #12 wire for 20A #14wire for 15A. Dont assume its ok cause its
not. There is no protection because the wire is undersized. The breaker
does not trip cause 20Amps have not been exceeded, the wire gets hot and
the insulation melts....fire.
Electricity is not forgiving....Please be safe
Thanks. I will certainly check.
BUSTER
11-01-2007, 08:09 PM
I have the same Groco 12V. system on my 42C and never had a problem,even here in the northeast. One important tip....do not reduce the hose diameter below 1/2" ID,if you do it tremendously strains the pump.
spartonboat1
11-01-2007, 11:19 PM
My tech wants me to install a changer, but he complains the impeller systems (Reverso) is not durable, at least not the impellers.
"...a Groco 12v reversible gear pump..." is that sold as a kit for installation as an oil change system, or what is its original purpose in life? Groco stuff seems to usually be quite stout stuff. What should I check on?
Thx...
Paul45c
11-02-2007, 12:27 AM
Here's my 2 cents' worth -- my mechanic looked at my Reverso oil change pump setup pre-overhaul with a cringe, and then as he was mucking out my crankcase pan he found pieces of old Reverso impellers. 'Nuff said. I did a bronze gear pump Oberdorfer before the overhaul was completed.
BUSTER
11-02-2007, 08:36 AM
My tech wants me to install a changer, but he complains the impeller systems (Reverso) is not durable, at least not the impellers.
"...a Groco 12v reversible gear pump..." is that sold as a kit for installation as an oil change system, or what is its original purpose in life? Groco stuff seems to usually be quite stout stuff. What should I check on?
Thx...
The Groco unit comes as a fully assembled package,with a manifold,all mounted on a starboard-like base.
Checked this morning. I already have a 20 amp breaker so no need to swap in a new breaker. Also, thanks for the tip on not going below 1/2" ID on the hoses. I did not get the whole manifold setup because all I am doing now is swapping out the pump from my existing setup.
spartonboat1
11-04-2007, 10:07 AM
Hi JLR:
On our 43DC I installed a GROCO gear pump and manifold. Much better than the cheezy reverso I have now on the 53. Check out their pumps. I think you will be happy. Let me know. Have fun!
DC
Here is latest URL at Groco site for their oil change pumps...End of next season, when oil has been dropped, I expect I'll be installing one of these units (5 hole).
http://www.groco.net/MKTG/U-LUBE.htm
Groco takes you to a dealers site for the product. Also, there are several spec files that can be downloaded.
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