I've never had a bad cutlass bearing...

[JuiceClark]

This is my 5th boat with inboards and there was a drag on the port engine. After many hours spent on the engines and other things, there didn't seem to be anything left which could drag on that very healthy engine. People kept saying your cutlass bearing on that side must be bad.

Still, I was a little bit skeptical because it hadn't happened before....and it's such a simple thing. What could go wrong with it?

There are 6 under the boat in total. 2 in the long strut and one in the smaller one forward...all the same size. The yard pulled the first 5 and they all looked pretty good, albeit old. (first pic) The last one came out to show the problem.

Old but functional:
55075

Not functional:
55076

[JuiceClark]

The SB prop turned a little stiff, but not too badly. I almost had to hang on the port prop to get it to move.

All that crap caked in the bad one looks like copper. Could some idiot at a yard, long ago, have slopped bottom paint on that shaft and it ran down into the bearing?

That black line you see at the front of where the cutlass was is so hard, you can barely scratch it off with a hard edge. It's like super-tempered copper ground onto that shaft. Luckily, the shaft doesn't even have a groove on it under there.
55077I guess some goober painted my bearing.

[rsmith]

Not paint it’s a growth like coral. I had it in mine a few times. Typically it builds up on the shaft. I usd to eat up a set of bearings every year. My shafts were scored in the running area. Even polishing them with Emory Paper didn’t help. I put one piece shafts in and got rid of the Muff couplings. Stopped eating bearings. In theory the water Chanel’s flow through the bearings and the shaft rides on a thin film of water and never touches the bearings surface. Never glom paint in the front of the bearings it will cut the water flow and burn up the bearing

[JuiceClark]

Not paint it’s a growth like coral. I had it in mine a few times. Typically it builds up on the shaft. I usd to eat up a set of bearings every year. My shafts were scored in the running area. Even polishing them with Emory Paper didn’t help. I put one piece shafts in and got rid of the Muff couplings. Stopped eating bearings. In theory the water Chanel’s flow through the bearings and the shaft rides on a thin film of water and never touches the bearings surface. Never glom paint in the front of the bearings it will cut the water flow and burn up the bearing

Interesting. It looks just like blue-green copper. The growth must've developed when the boat was somewhere else...since dumping Lake O filth down our river killed everything but a few catfish.

Did you know the bearings were grabbing when your top speed fell? Or did some routine maintenance indicate the shaft was hard to turn??

[rsmith]

I never noticed any rpm drop but I run the boat often. It looked like scale buildup on the shafts. It would eat the rubber. I’m in Vero Beach on the Indian river. The last few years the bottom growth here has been really bad.

[JuiceClark]

What is this mental illness I have? Watching them press the new cutlass bearings onto my ol girl made my soul rise. There's something about restoring former glory that I find irresistible. I can't wait to run her up on plane.

The DYS yard on Ft Myers Beach has done a pretty good job on everything. Of course, I can't recommend them until after I get the invoice!

55234

55239

[Briankinley2004]

Curious what this costs as well. I probably need to change mine and replace the stuffing box pipes, rudder seals, etc while I am at it.

[JuiceClark]

Curious what this costs as well. I probably need to change mine and replace the stuffing box pipes, rudder seals, etc while I am at it.

I'll let ya know - should be done early next week.

Haul-out and pressure wash.
Repack rudders.
New cutlass bearings.
Dripless seals installed.
Install the new props I have.
Grind down and paint all the running gear.
Zincs.
Etc etc.

How nice to pay for that right before Christmas.

Kinda' funny: They have a gigantic lift and pull a lot of 100 + footers. But, they didn't have a puller big enough to get my shaft coupling off. The head guy had to go buy a big steel plate and make a new one. They don't build em like they used to.

[SKYCHENEY]

I replaced all six of mine for the price of the bearings. Well, I did have to cut the steel pieces and buy the all-thread to make the bearing pusher. And it did take a good part of the day to replace them. But it really isn't a bad job.

[JuiceClark]

I replaced all six of mine for the price of the bearings. Well, I did have to cut the steel pieces and buy the all-thread to make the bearing pusher. And it did take a good part of the day to replace them. But it really isn't a bad job.

On my first boats, starting 25 years ago, we had do-it-yourself yards around here. I'd pay a couple hundred to have her put on blocks and do all the rest myself. Those were the days.

Now, waterfront real estate costs so damned much, yards have to be full service to pay the debt for being there. The property this yard sits on is probably $10 million.

I get why FL is getting so expensive and crowded...especially now. Still, it hasn't been paradise for 30 years.

[Briankinley2004]

I replaced all six of mine for the price of the bearings. Well, I did have to cut the steel pieces and buy the all-thread to make the bearing pusher. And it did take a good part of the day to replace them. But it really isn't a bad job.

If I was still in Louisiana that's what I would do but the FL yards won't allow DIY. Well there is one near me that does but 30K lbs is the max she will haul. When I get the price I may spend the fuel to go to a DIY yard even if I have to cross the Gulf. Bottom job cost me $1800 in LA (plus my labor) was 4 grand here in FL when I paid someone. I am not griping as I have made alot of money off of labor and experience over the years in the construction industry. Not saying it is a rip off. It is well earned money but I worked hard for mine and like to save it when it makes sense to me.

[cww]

Going through this same thing. I was missing 150-200 rpm on both sides, and one engine was sporadically stalling when it went into gear. I spent $$$$$$$ on the engines to no effect.

Boat came out of the water to repair bent props and stub shafts from grounding on the way down to florida, at which point we realized what the problem is when it took 2 guys with a pipe wrench and another with a chain wrench to turn one shaft, and the other was impossible to turn even with tools. The driveline alignment was off on the side that wouldn't turn, the marina fixed that, the other one the alignment was in spec but they're still hard to turn by hand. I'm replacing all cutlass bearings. I don't think this is possible but looking at how many layers of paint are over the edges I think they may be original.

[yachtsmanbill]

So no one except me changes the bearings in the thru-hull just aft of the coupling and align all FOUR points?

[JuiceClark]

Going through this same thing. I was missing 150-200 rpm on both sides, and one engine was sporadically stalling when it went into gear. I spent $$$$$$$ on the engines to no effect.

Boat came out of the water to repair bent props and stub shafts from grounding on the way down to florida, at which point we realized what the problem is when it took 2 guys with a pipe wrench and another with a chain wrench to turn one shaft, and the other was impossible to turn even with tools. The driveline alignment was off on the side that wouldn't turn, the marina fixed that, the other one the alignment was in spec but they're still hard to turn by hand. I'm replacing all cutlass bearings. I don't think this is possible but looking at how many layers of paint are over the edges I think they may be original.

Yep, sounds about right. For that bad bearing in the picture, I could almost hang from the prop without it spinning. I weigh 200 - and about 150 lbs was hanging on the edge of the prop before she'd turn.

BUT, I think the bent props were just as culpable though...if not more. What a mess. They weren't dented, just bent the wrong way. You couldn't even tell until you took a good, comparative look at them. Someone dragged them through the mud.

[warrenw]

So no one except me changes the bearings in the thru-hull just aft of the coupling and align all FOUR points?

Bill,

How do you change the cutlass bearings at the shaft log without pulling the log fitting? I want to replace all 8 cutlass bearings on my 47 Commander before dropping the Cat 3208s in and lining them up. I will pull the shafts as I need to have the couplers modified anyways.

Thanks

[JuiceClark]

Brought her home today. (still no invoice yet) With new bearings, you can tell putting that port side into gear. It doesn't hesitate like it used to - fighting to get the prop spinning at idle RPM with that trashed bearing.

The trim tabs aren't working at all for some reason. Must've been a breaker thrown or something disturbed in all that work. So, I'll figure that out and get some performance #s with the new props. Trying to plane without tabs is a pointless endeavor, especially with full tanks. Even the transom platform drags in the water without the tabs down.
That said, the bow starts rising at only 1,150rpm. She's gonna cruise nicely at 1,750 I think.

[Scott Mather]

On our 1989 52c. I have never used the tabs, have only used to balance when everyone sits on one side of boat.
Getting on plane with full fuel is a breeze.
Something does not make sense on the need for tabs, what are other 52c’s experiencing with the need for tabs.

[Eddieclemons]

On our 1989 52c. I have never used the tabs, have only used to balance when everyone sits on one side of boat.
Getting on plane with full fuel is a breeze.
Something does not make sense on the need for tabs, what are other 52c’s experiencing with the need for tabs.

I am sure I could get up on plane without, but they definitely add almost 2mph to the cruise speed.

[JuiceClark]

On our 1989 52c. I have never used the tabs, have only used to balance when everyone sits on one side of boat.
Getting on plane with full fuel is a breeze.
Something does not make sense on the need for tabs, what are other 52c’s experiencing with the need for tabs.

Yeah, there's something else going on too. Without the tabs down, the swim platform drags behind the boat. Still, with the bow coming up so easy, it should plane without anything.

I'm going to clean her up and fix about 10 things which don't seem to work all of a sudden after being at the yard for a month. Then, I'll take her out and put the hammer down. The only things left that could cause this reluctance to get over the hump are the tabs and boost...everything else has been gone through. I should just buy a boost gauge since it's so hard to get a tech out.

[madhatter1]

Get a friend to either run the boat for you or if qualified do some checking of systems/operation while planning off or underway. there are so many simple things to check on any diesel. A charge air leak could drop enough boost to limit one engines ability to spool up, therefore limiting the other ones ability. Check everything over and over taking good notes. What does exhaust look like under different conditions, etc, etc?
Bet you can find the smoking gun. If anything eliminate some possibilities without paying mechanic for so they can concentrate on engines themselves.

[rsmith]

Get the tabs working and run it hard. The SOP for Detroits in the ops manual is to bring them up to WOT stabilize and pull back 200 rpm for cruise. It’s a good possibility your engines are coked up from low speed operations and sitting. When we bought the Endless Summer she was 9 years old with 500 hours. RPM Diesel in FtLauderdale condemned the engines for low compression. Sea trial the boat wouldn’t run over 1800 rpm WOT. The overhauls were factored into the price and we took possession memorial weekend 1976. Scheduled the OH for later in July and headed to Bimini to fish the tuna bite. Every hour we ran them the engines got stronger. Ran into some people headed to Chubb where the Blue Marlin bite was hot. We ended up fishing Chubb for 2 weeks. By the time we pointed the bow back towards Lauderdale the engines were turning 2300 WOT no smoke. Canceled the overhauls and ran another 9000 hours and 20 years before we finally rebuilt the engines

[JuiceClark]

Get the tabs working and run it hard. The SOP for Detroits in the ops manual is to bring them up to WOT stabilize and pull back 200 rpm for cruise. It’s a good possibility your engines are coked up from low speed operations and sitting. When we bought the Endless Summer she was 9 years old with 500 hours. RPM Diesel in FtLauderdale condemned the engines for low compression. Sea trial the boat wouldn’t run over 1800 rpm WOT. The overhauls were factored into the price and we took possession memorial weekend 1976. Scheduled the OH for later in July and headed to Bimini to fish the tuna bite. Every hour we ran them the engines got stronger. Ran into some people headed to Chubb where the Blue Marlin bite was hot. We ended up fishing Chubb for 2 weeks. By the time we pointed the bow back towards Lauderdale the engines were turning 2300 WOT no smoke. Canceled the overhauls and ran another 9000 hours and 20 years before we finally rebuilt the engines

Holy Christmas - that's the feel-good story of the Season! 9k hours ?!

Gone through almost eveything. They feel lively and ready to go. We'll get it, soon. But yeah, this boat hasn't been running up on plane for at least five years. A nice 1,900 rpm trip to Key West and back is in order when we get it sorted out.

I was almost on plane at 1,300 on the way home Friday, but I didn't have the time head out and run. With the tabs down, she'll pop-up and I can just her run for a few hours....and I'll hope to make a similar report.

[rsmith]

Just watch the engine temps and make sure your cooling system is good to go. Every catastrophic Detroit failure I’ve seen has been from failed hose clamps or RW impeller failures leading to overheating.

[cww]

Bill,

How do you change the cutlass bearings at the shaft log without pulling the log fitting? I want to replace all 8 cutlass bearings on my 47 Commander before dropping the Cat 3208s in and lining them up. I will pull the shafts as I need to have the couplers modified anyways.

Thanks

Wait a second, ya'll are worrying me.

My boat is out of the water right now getting the cutlass bearings changed because as I posted earlier in this thread I've been having the same issues. The marina says there's only 6, and all I can see is 6.

What is this about there being 8 of them? Where is the 4th one on each shaft? The boat is out of the water with the shafts out of it, so if I was gonna do it I need to know now.

[cenger]

You should have 6. While it's out, if you have dripless stuffing boxes, now is an excellent time to have them serviced as well. Also, have them check the runout on the shafts. I just had mine done and the yard recommended having one of the shafts trued. It turned out the shaft had a crack, so I was glad to correct it all at in one shot.

[ageless]

for those that haven't researched bearings I would strongly recommend looking at composite, I went to them my last haul out and have been extremely happy, thus far. Like most marine products, they're not all the same. If you're interested in where I got mine send me a PM and I'll put you in contact, the company owner is also a Hatteras owner

[JuiceClark]

So glad I had that done. (at DYS in Ft Myers Beach, FL) I could hang from a blade on the port prop and it would barely turn.

They slid a couple of those composite bearing on each side and you can spin the prop with one finger...before connecting to the trans.
I also had the no drip logs put on. A quick wipe-down and coat of paint erased 39 years of dripping.

That was an expensive haul-out, but it was the important stuff.

[warrenw]

Wait a second, ya'll are worrying me.

My boat is out of the water right now getting the cutlass bearings changed because as I posted earlier in this thread I've been having the same issues. The marina says there's only 6, and all I can see is 6.

What is this about there being 8 of them? Where is the 4th one on each shaft? The boat is out of the water with the shafts out of it, so if I was gonna do it I need to know now.

Chris,

The 4 cutlass bearings per side is on my 1972 47 Commander that had 1.75" shafts and Cummins VT8-370Ms. I didn't believe it when someone told me there were bearings in the shaft logs, but sure enough he was right. Hopefully there aren't any there on your 53 Hatteras MY, as they appear to be a real pain to remove.

I also plan on going with composite bearings - they will be custom thin wall to allow me to upsize the shafts without boring the struts.

[cww]

Chris,The 4 cutlass bearings per side is on my 1972 47 Commander that had 1.75" shafts and Cummins VT8-370Ms. I didn't believe it when someone told me there were bearings in the shaft logs, but sure enough he was right. Hopefully there aren't any there on your 53 Hatteras MY, as they appear to be a real pain to remove.I also plan on going with composite bearings - they will be custom thin wall to allow me to upsize the shafts without boring the struts. Oh you’re not crazy at all, the marina says some boats have shaft log bearings and some don’t. They thought mine should have one because they work on a 58YF that has them. I keep hoping I’m not missing something because you just know if there was one it’ll turn out that it was the main problem all along and I’ll have to haul again. In the hunt I sent them on for this 4th bearing they were poking around the shaft logs and said the hoses and clamps that make up the outside of the stuffing boxes are original and need to be replaced. They’re shrunken and have some cracks and may start leaking soon. I guess better now while they’re already in there. I wonder why some of these boats would have log bearings and others wouldn’t ? Is it that the shafts in the 58’s are longer?

[jim rosenthal]

Perhaps some builder design a boat without shaft log cutlass bearings? Hard to imagine though; I have never seen a boat built as such. A cutlass bearing in that area to support the shaft and preserve alignment would seem essential. I guess you would just use a smaller diameter sterntube if there was not going to be a cutlass bearing inside it.

[cww]

Perhaps some builder design a boat without shaft log cutlass bearings? Hard to imagine though; I have never seen a boat built as such. A cutlass bearing in that area to support the shaft and preserve alignment would seem essential. I guess you would just use a smaller diameter sterntube if there was not going to be a cutlass bearing inside it.

Does yours have cutlass bearings in the shaft log? On my 53 there is a little mini-strut located immediately after the shaft log right where the shaft pops out of the boat. So if there was a boat that didn't need them, it would probably be this one. But I want to know for sure so that if it has one I can make sure it gets replaced. The problem on my boat was bad enough that you can't turn the shafts by hand, one of them you can't even turn with a pipe wrench, and I was having issues with engine stalling when changing gears.

[SKYCHENEY]

Does yours have cutlass bearings in the shaft log? On my 53 there is a little mini-strut located immediately after the shaft log right where the shaft pops out of the boat. So if there was a boat that didn't need them, it would probably be this one. But I want to know for sure so that if it has one I can make sure it gets replaced. The problem on my boat was bad enough that you can't turn the shafts by hand, one of them you can't even turn with a pipe wrench, and I was having issues with engine stalling when changing gears.

You don't need one there on a 53. The only reason you have three struts is because its a two piece shaft, otherwise, two struts is all that is needed. But, if you can't turn the shaft, you need to check your alignment and no just at the coupling. You need to make sure each strut is aligned right and nothing has moved due to a previous grounding or some other damage. It could also be a bent shaft.

[cww]

I drove over there and it's pretty difficult to see in the hole with the forward shaft still there, but I managed to position my phone camera to where it looked in there, far as I can tell there is no bearing. They already had the stub shafts pulled and the bearings removed from the struts on the port side and I was easily able to spin the shaft by hand. So I think I'm good to go.

59072

59073

[cww]

You don't need one there on a 53. The only reason you have three struts is because its a two piece shaft, otherwise, two struts is all that is needed. But, if you can't turn the shaft, you need to check your alignment and no just at the coupling. You need to make sure each strut is aligned right and nothing has moved due to a previous grounding or some other damage. It could also be a bent shaft.

Ok sweet, then I won't put one in there, less to go wrong and the less drag the better. The alignment was done last time it was out of the water. I forget what they said the spec was but one side was way out, the other side was a little out. They did both sides, and one of the shafts was bent and that got fixed. It made the problem better but not enough to where the shafts weren't still too difficult to turn. I am pretty sure it was the cutlass bearings in the struts, with them removed the shaft turns freely with one hand now. Before it wouldn't turn with a pipe wrench. I am thinking I probably found my missing 150rpm.

[JuiceClark]

Ok sweet, then I won't put one in there, less to go wrong and the less drag the better. The alignment was done last time it was out of the water. I forget what they said the spec was but one side was way out, the other side was a little out. They did both sides, and one of the shafts was bent and that got fixed. It made the problem better but not enough to where the shafts weren't still too difficult to turn. I am pretty sure it was the cutlass bearings in the struts, with them removed the shaft turns freely with one hand now. Before it wouldn't turn with a pipe wrench. I am thinking I probably found my missing 150rpm.

When they were getting ready to install the dripless shaft logs, the shaft was just laying in that opening in the hull. Nothing went there but shaft log inside.

It feels a bit different around the dock with the shafts loosened up! There's more kick when you pop it into gear, for sure.

[cww]

When they were getting ready to install the dripless shaft logs, the shaft was just laying in that opening in the hull. Nothing went there but shaft log inside.It feels a bit different around the dock with the shafts loosened up! There's more kick when you pop it into gear, for sure. I just caught your other comment about changing props, what props did you go with? Any performance difference?

[JuiceClark]

I just caught your other comment about changing props, what props did you go with? Any performance difference?

Well, this was a pretty thorough restoration situation. But the PO had already bought new 32x32 4 blade props and they were waiting in the box. The old props were covered in crust and kind of bent looking. lol Honestly, it felt like the old ones weighed half as much as new...were probably under the boat since 1984.

Anyway, with everything cleaned up, new cutlass bearings and the new props (which are probably just a bit oversized) everything is different. First of all, she pops into gear now with a prop wash behind the transom - used to just slowly start pushing water.
In canals you can't have both engines in gear for long at idle 550rpm because it moves too fast for tight quarters.

A couple weeks ago a tech came and tuned the engines. When we took her out to run, he found the tachs are off. The ER tach is reading about 200rpm higher than at the helm. He'll fix that this Summer, but we couldn't get a proper max rpm rating that day.
So, at 2000rpm (I'm supposing that is really 2200rpm) I glanced at the GPS and it read 21.8 knots. Then, I backed her off to 1800 and it settled in nicely. That seemed great to me, for a boat that had been sitting for years. The black cloud behind the boat after the turbos kicked-in was really something to see.

Anyway, it's a work in progress and I don't have #s from before - because this boat hasn't been on plane for at least 5 years! But having this girl up running at 20k, after a year of resto weekends, was the best feeling I've had in awhile.

[cww]

Engine room tachs are often mechanical while the ones at the helm stations are electronic. In my experience the only electronic tachs out there which are accurate to any high degree are aetna's. Between the two I would go with the engine room tachs. 2200 is 100rpm shy of what you're supposed to be turning, based on that you would appear to be over-propped.

Edited: I wrote over and I meant under.

[JuiceClark]

Engine room tachs are often mechanical while the ones at the helm stations are electronic. In my experience the only electronic tachs out there which are accurate to any high degree are aetna's. Between the two I would go with the engine room tachs. 2200 is 100rpm shy of what you're supposed to be turning, based on that you would appear to be under-propped.

True, if that's all she'll do. That day, I just brought it up to 2k and then started checking all the data. It was after I backed down to 1800 the tech informed me that 2k was actually 2,200. With the tanks totally full and the bridge windows on, I was surprised to get RPMs that high after years of sitting. So, I think she'll go higher.

So, I'll blow them out for a month and then get the survey done...and we'll floor it. Michigan wheel told me they'd suggest 32x30 4 blades for this boat with 650s. So, if I get get her close to 2,300 with these props, I'll be happy. At $6+ per gallon, I won't be up on top very often anyway!