Winterization of Water System

[RyanB]

For those of us that must winterize, how do others properly winterize their fresh water system? We have an RV which is cake to pump antifreeze through, but when looking around the engine room of our new boat I'm trying to figure out where to start.

We have two expansion tanks, one for main system and the other for the Royal Flush head, of which I do not see a drain anywhere. Do I blow the system out with air, or T in a line to suck in gallons of pink antifreeze?

For the holding tank and fresh water tank, I'm planning to pump them out as much as possible and dump in a few gallons of pink. Then add pink to all the sinks and bilge pumps.

Do the AC units drain out when they shut off or do they too need to be flushed/blown out?

If anyone has any tricks of the trade that will help us out, please share.

Thank you!

[oscarvan]

I'm in the same spot. Winterized 42' sailboat on the hard with less complex systems many times, as well as motorhome, now facing Hatt in the water.

Any and all suggestions/remarks/insults welcome. (Yes I know, move the boat South. We'll get that out of the way first. Next year, most likely).

I have purchased a refractometer to accurately establish freezing points at various stages. I plan to add valves and "T"s where needed to facilitate process as it will be done fairly regularly.

My plan, subject to what transpires on this thread, is as follows:

1: Disconnect supply to water pump and use a small 120V pump to get water out of fresh water tanks. Add "pink" and pump until it comes out. Question I have here is whether it will work its way into the second tank under VIP bunk.... The safe route there would be to open the tank on top and pour pink in directly, or find the vent line before it exits the hull and put a three way valve there so I can force pink back into the tank....

2: Using a 10 gallon tub provide pink supply for the water pump. Prime and pump to everywhere a faucet is, starting at the furthest point. Since the washer is not working I will remove/replace it prior and make sure those lines are protected. Dishwasher and ice maker are also on the doomed list, so will be removed so as to gain access to supply. Don't forget the window washer lines!

2A: My water heater is already set up with a bypass and a direct drain into the SB engine room sea chest. So by pass, drain and run the hot side just like the cold side.

3: Drain strainers for all three heads and "T" into supply to allow pink into the bowls and subsequently into tanks. Challenge here is to guesstimate how much it takes to fill the lines and get enough in the tank.

4: Same for AC water pump. Turn on each unit until pink comes out.

5: Same for generator. Run until pink comes out. Concern there is to have enough in there to protect the aqualift muffler....

6: Remove impellers from engines. Empty strainers. I already have provisions to connect to raw water system at strainers and force pink in. Do so until it comes out the exhaust. Optional there is to crank the engines with stop button depressed...... But I like the idea of the impeller "relaxing" over the winter.... Also, there are opinions that say NOT to use potable anti freeze on the engines, but to use actual antifreeze, brand and type unimportant as long as it has some rust inhibitors in it. Input here is welcomed.

7: Bilge pumps.... not sure here. My bilges are dry...... I don't really see a need to fill them with pink and pump it through. If there is a low spot in the discharge(s) it will be in flexible hose and not subject to frost damage.

8: Shower sumps. Same thing. Dry them up and the pump should be empty.

Biggest question I have is where to get pink in bulk. Schlepping what I estimate to be 60-100 gallon jugs sounds like a PITA. I've thought about putting the pink dosing tank on the dock with a feed to the water pump through the engine room air supply. Need to open that up anyways as I have large foam pieces that go in there to keep the weather out..... This way I can dump the gallon jugs on the dock instead of carrying them all downstairs. Does make it harder to keep an eye on the level in the dosing tank.

[jim rosenthal]

I have never found a deal on bulk pink AF. I buy it at Fawcett's. They are a local business, a local store, and I decline to spend all that money with WM. My boat uses three cases, or 18 gallons.

For the fresh water system, I do the following:

1) bypass the water heater and drain it. (I have a set of valves plumbed in that enable this and if you don't you should fit them.

2) use the freshwater pump to pump the system as dry as you can. A little left in the tank won't hurt you.

3) I use a 120vac pump to push pink AF through the system using the shore inlet. If you want a better level of freeze protection, use a gallon or so of the more concentrated stuff every second or third gallon. My pump is supposed to be self-priming but frankly I have to use a funnel and pour the pink stuff in.

4) because the AF is going in the shore inlet it gets through the entire system. I have all the faucets just cracked a bit and when everything comes out solid pink, I'm done. After the accumulator tank pressure is gone, I open all the taps all the way.

5) You may have FW outlets in the engine rooms! Don't forget them if you do! You may have a washdown on deck! Don't forget that either!

When I've had problems with pipes cracking in a hard freeze, it was always because I tried to use compressed air to blow all the water out of the system. The compressed air winterizing method works really well in Florida and points South. Up here, it doesn't work too well. Replacing damaged copper plumbing in an old Hatteras is a pain in the ass. I will lend you the winterizing pump if you would like to try it out.

[jim rosenthal]

I do not see any point to putting pink AF into the water tanks. I would just pump them dry as much as you can and use the shore inlet(s) to winterize the system.

[jim rosenthal]

I forgot to mention that since the boat's FW pump isn't part of the winterizing circuit, I drain it also. And its strainer as well.

[oscarvan]

I do not see any point to putting pink AF into the water tanks. I would just pump them dry as much as you can and use the shore inlet(s) to winterize the system.

the huge advantage of which is that you're not brushing your teeth in pink for three weeks next spring. So, it is your experience that pumping them dry gets it all out enough that nothing remains where it can do damage......

You did make me aware that both shore inlets need to be pinked as well.... (I have one on each side)

Yes I have a deck wash faucet and an engine room faucet.

[jim rosenthal]

One engine room tap, or two?

[Fanfare]

Don't forget the windshield washer and icemaker/bar sink. Run until pink.

[oscarvan]

One engine room tap, or two? One that I’m aware of.

[Dan Mapes]

I wired in a switch into the icemaker so I could open the valve manually. Next I bypassed the water heater. Then I used a spare connector to hook up a compressor to the shore inlet for the water. I set the output of the compressor to about 40 psi.
I started from the farthest sink and opened the valves. Once they blew air, I would close the valve, let the compressor rebuild pressure and pop the valve open briskly. Several passes later I would work my way back in the system to the source, and then back out to the farthest point. Of course the icemaker was in the loop as well as the washer/dryer.

I never looked at pink AF again and 8 years on the Northern Hudson with zero issues.

BTW pull the drain valve from the water heater to let it drain. Don't merely open the valve. Take the valve off.

If you let pink sit in the system too long and it gets warm it will ferment. I don't know what that mixes with but it can't be good. Maybe a frozen stupid island drink but I never went there.

[SKYCHENEY]

Solution: Inside heated storage. Mine just went into the building today.

[Photolomy]

The compressed air winterizing method works really well in Florida and points South.

Winterizing method / Florida?

[Boatsb]

I thought putting rum in the tank was the Florida method.

[scottinsydney]

The idea of winterising a boat boggles my mind. So I have a couple of general questions....

Is it so cold that you have to replace normal antifreeze with a special winter antifreeze in the motors..... or just drain them completely?

Is the "pink" a non poisonous antifreeze? Would you put it into the water tanks or only after draining them?

What is the general affect of subzero temperatures on a boat from a cosmetic/damage point of view? Can't be good for any external varnish. Is the boat generally taken from the water and put on land during winter? I realise that some boats are put in big warmed sheds. Or they have engine heaters turned on during winter which keep the boat warm.

I have felt a cold shiver just typing this out...... so here is a warming photo taken a moment ago where we are anchored for school holidays at a place called Pittwater just north of Sydney. About 80 degrees F and perfect.


43882

[oscarvan]

The idea of winterising a boat boggles my mind. So I have a couple of general questions....

Is it so cold that you have to replace normal antifreeze with a special winter antifreeze in the motors..... or just drain them completely?

Is the "pink" a non poisonous antifreeze? Would you put it into the water tanks or only after draining them?

What is the general affect of subzero temperatures on a boat from a cosmetic/damage point of view? Can't be good for any external varnish. Is the boat generally taken from the water and put on land during winter? I realise that some boats are put in big warmed sheds. Or they have engine heaters turned on during winter which keep the boat warm.

I have felt cold shiver just typing this out...... so here is a warming photo taken a moment ago where we are anchored for school holidays at a place called Pittwater just north of Sydney. About 80 degrees F and perfect.


43882

It depends on what you have in there. Most of us run a 50/50 which is good till -35ºF which is -37ºC. Doesn't get that cold here. single digits on very rare occasions. But you have to flush out the raw water side as the water in there will freeze.

"Pink" is indeed non toxic anti freeze. Either Ethanol or Polypropylene Glycol. You have to drain the water out first, as much as possible or it will dilute too far.

Some have the luxury of a heated shed. Some go on the hard. Some (like mine) stay in the water with bubblers to keep ice from forming around the boat. Depends on where you are. Too far North and the bubblers won't cut it.

Winter weather is not good for anything. Water getting in cracks and crevices and expanding/contracting accelerates aging. My boat is under roof. It helps. Engine heaters would protect the engine, but not the potable water system. And if they fail/power fails you enter the world of pain....

[whoover]

I never use pink RV anti freeze in the engines, you cannot trust it if it becomes diluted. I pump mixed anti freeze into the raw cooling side from the strainer until it runs out the exhaust, done. I place a bucket under the intake strainer so when I open the intake valve I catch most of the anti freeze that is in the strainer and hose for reuse the next winter. Take the hose off the air con water pump and pour anti freeze into it with the pump running until it comes out the overboard discharge. I have two units so I clamp the hose so the fluid goes where I want it. Fresh water pump is removed and taken home then the water heater is by passed and drained. Connect an air line to the dock side water inlet and blow out all the lines and fixtures. Then pink stuff is pumped in from the same inlet until it comes out all the fixtures then blow out again with air so its not sitting all winter. Heads are done by putting the pickup hose in a bucket and running them until pink, done. The shower sump is done by the pink coming out of the shower head, sink traps the same. Water and holding tank is pumped dry as much as possible and are fine. my ice maker is feed from a filter setup under the galley sink, disconnect the line under the door on the front of the ice maker, drain the filter housings then blow that line out. The valve on the ice maker get removed and goes home too, that drains the line to the cube tray. Wet vac the bilges for water and spillage and done. I'm about 4 hours on my 42 start to finish. I use a 5 gallon pail with a thru hull fitting in the bottom to supply my pump with fluid. I also have an electric valve to fill my water tank from shore water, I almost missed that one this year.

Walt Hoover

[JD5652]

I take a very simplistic approach for the freshwater system. I simply disconnect the pump intake and connect a hose to it. Other end of hose goes into a 5 gallon bucket up on the floor of forward state room. Turn regular freshwater pump on and let it pump through system. Go to each faucet and open it until it runs pink. Don't forget any outside faucets or dock water inlets. Let ice maker run a few cycles until you get pink ice slushy.

For raw water system, close thru hulls, open strainer.... start engine (or generator) and pour pink stuff into strainer. If you winter on land, ...open thru hulls when on land and drain any residual raw water.

[RyanB]

Thanks for all the input, this is great and exactly the method(s) I was planning to take. My head is supplied by a large pressure tank, so I think that will be my biggest hurdle as it'll gobble up a lot of pink to fill and flush the line to the head.

The 120v pump to the dock water line is a great idea, as well. I'm going to blow out and run Pink. We're in Buffalo, NY so we get really cold at times. I'm going to take an abundance of precautions.

Heated storage would be ideal, however I'm too tall for the only heated storage around. We will shrink wrap the entire boat and install a door so I can get inside to do some odds and ends while she's on land for the winter. I hate the idea of the cold temps on her, but "it is what it is".

Haul out is next Wednesday, so I've got a lot of learning to do over the next few weeks.

[oscarvan]

Haul out is next Wednesday, so I've got a lot of learning to do over the next few weeks.

Yeah the first time is the hardest. I have a written plan, which like any plan will not survive first contact with the enemy, but I plan to update it as I go so I will have a better plan next time.

[sgharford]

For past 13 years of Long Island, NY winters I have run water tank as dry as it will go, then pour 10 gallons of pink antifreeze directly into it and run the toilets and sinks until pink comes out. For the small 12 gallon water heater, I do have a bypass valve and hose kit on it for just this purpose as a bypass to water heater. I drain water heater separately, then run the last 2 or 3 gallons of pink antifreeze left in water tank into it, then drain water heater again. In spring time I fill the water tank and then run it dry right away and refill. I never noticed antifreeze taste thereafter brushing teeth and I don't drink from the faucet, just wash things.

[UNIQUE_NAME]

doing the A/C systems was always a pia because the pump is not self priming.
learned a trick from a yard guy.
get one of those flotec pumps and hook it up to a gun drill.
get some clear hose with OD close the ID of the A/C hull fitting exhaust.
2 barb fittings to attach the hose the flotec.
open the A/C thruhull.
push the hose into the A/C hull fitting and run the drill.
when you see pink coming out thruhull, that one is done.

you might get some pink stuff coming back at you from the hull fitting if the inside hose paths are uphill.
wrapping a rag around the A/C hull fitting helps with that.

[RyanB]

doing the A/C systems was always a pia because the pump is not self priming.
learned a trick from a yard guy.
get one of those flotec pumps and hook it up to a gun drill.
get some clear hose with OD close the ID of the A/C hull fitting exhaust.
2 barb fittings to attach the hose the flotec.
open the A/C thruhull.
push the hose into the A/C hull fitting and run the drill.
when you see pink coming out thruhull, that one is done.

you might get some pink stuff coming back at you from the hull fitting if the inside hose paths are uphill.
wrapping a rag around the A/C hull fitting helps with that.

Our yard guy, just told me about this method yesterday. Basically to just pump in the pink backwards and let it drain out the intake.

[lake of the woods]

So from a place where the lake freezes for 4 to 5 months a year to a depth of 4 feet of ice (ice road truckers), i have not had a leak in 9 winters of owning (and winterizing) my boat. Pink (to -50 F) works!!

I just drain my on-board water tank and hot water tank. Then shut off the inlet valve to the hot water tank then pour in to my water tank approximately 10 gallons (US) of pink, non-toxic anti-freeze solution for RV's available at most stores (WM). I run the pink through the water system making sure a steady stream of pink comes out of every fixture that has water go through it (hot and cold taps, toilets, ice maker). This ensures the pipes, taps, toilets, black-water holding tank, and ice maker will not freeze even in sustained -30 degree F temperatures. Since I drained the hot water tank I do not fill it with pink and my by-pass valve allows the hot water pipes to fill with pink. In the spring I run out the pink and then rince the water system 2 to 3 times to get rid to the pink.

I run the same pink through my generator, gas main engines, and air conditioners until I see lots of pink coming out the exhausts for the motors and air conditioner outlet.

We have brutal long and cold winters here (semi-trailers and cement trucks use the ice roads for up to 3 months) and in 9 years no cracks or leaks (yet).

Pink works (-50).

Mark
lake of the Woods
1989 40 DC

[34Hatt]

We will shrink wrap the entire boat and install a door so I can get inside to do some odds and ends while she's on land for the winter.
If its a Hatt with paint your can shrink wrap it only if its done right. I do mine but you need to avoid large area contact with paint. If moisture collect behind it this will cause the paint to blister I have a few contact points that I put tennis balls behind the plastic to avoid this been doing this about 9 years now all good some I have warn about this and they didn't do it didn't have good results.
I also stop mine wrap right below the rub rail.

[whoover]

That trick for the A/C is great, I will start doing it that way from now on.

Thanks
Walt Hoover

[oscarvan]

Don't think it will work in the water.....:p

[whoover]

If you were to close and drain the strainer and it could be reached form a tender? Just a thought. I have so many as a grow older.

Walt Hoover

[Sadey]

Sky’s winterizing check list to me was...battery switches off. No lie. Our’s went in Wednesday as well. And yes battery switches are off.

[SKYCHENEY]

Sky’s winterizing check list to me was...battery switches off. No lie. Our’s went in Wednesday as well. And yes battery switches are off.

Yes. The beauty and simplicity of heated indoor storage. Well worth the price.

[Boatsb]

Do you have battery maintainers?

Just to keep them at 100% and not sulphite out.

[jim rosenthal]

I have a cloth cover on a wooden frame that wraps up my boat, down past the chine. Works a treat. Breathes a bit, so I don't worry about blistering the paint, which IS an issue with shrink wrap- you have to stand it off the painted surfaces.

I wish we had heated indoor storage, but we don't.

Once a boat is hauled, don't forget to open the seacocks so there is no water trapped in them...

[jim rosenthal]

Some AC systems will gravity drain (mine). You have to make sure to drain the strainer, though, too; they have a fitting on the bottom of the sight glass. And open the seacock after the boat is hauled.

[RyanB]

If its a Hatt with paint your can shrink wrap it only if its done right. I do mine but you need to avoid large area contact with paint. If moisture collect behind it this will cause the paint to blister I have a few contact points that I put tennis balls behind the plastic to avoid this been doing this about 9 years now all good some I have warn about this and they didn't do it didn't have good results.I also stop mine wrap right below the rub rail. Can you elaborate on what contact areas I should look out for? This is the first I’ve ever heard of this being an issue. My plan was to wrap the bridge down to the side of the hull. I don’t think the hull is painted, are you referring to the bottom paint? Keeping as much of the boat out of the elements and sun was my plan.

[whoover]

Its not the winter sun that will hurt anything, Its outside in the hot summer sun anyway. Any place where the wrap touches the painted hull or topsides (awl grip for sure) will cause the top coat to bubble. The cause is trapped moisture. Your boat is painted, either awl grip or Imrom most likely. I once had the bubbles to go away in the spring. I do not wrap, I make sure to have the boat blocked bow higher so any snow(bad word to you southern guys) when it melts, runs off the boat. Twenty years and so far so good but the boat was freshly painted when I bought it.

Walt Hoover

[oscarvan]

I don’t think the hull is painted, are you referring to the bottom paint?

All Hatts were painted at birth, top to bottom.

[jim rosenthal]

Right, and most of them have been painted a few times since.

The problem comes when moisture is trapped next to the painted surface. This doesn't happen on other makes of boats, for the most part, because they are gelcoat, not paint, for the exterior layer that you see. You can have the boat wrapped in such a way as to keep the shrinkwrap off the painted surfaces, or you can use a reusable cover (I do) which is cotton/polyester, which breathes. But this is heavier and more trouble and expense. It requires a more sturdy frame, for one thing.

[RyanB]

Wow, thanks for advice on this. I would have had it wrapped and not given it a second thought.

Being that the hull is painted, are you able to buff them out the same as you would a gel coated boat? The sides of my hull are a bit chalky so I was going with wheel and wax in the spring, the same as I've done on all my previous boats.

Why the paint vs. gel coat that the rest of the industry seems to go with? There has to be a good reason, I'd think.

[SKYCHENEY]

Wow, thanks for advice on this. I would have had it wrapped and not given it a second thought.

Being that the hull is painted, are you able to buff them out the same as you would a gel coated boat? The sides of my hull are a bit chalky so I was going with wheel and wax in the spring, the same as I've done on all my previous boats.

Why the paint vs. gel coat that the rest of the industry seems to go with? There has to be a good reason, I'd think.

The reason is that its better. It lasts for decades with just a little buffing. The paint doesn't stain like the gelcoat because its not porous like that.

[RyanB]

Figured out my not being able to shrink wrap problem, with a quick fix. I feel much better having her inside, even if it not heated. Something came to my attention that I never thought of before. Do I need to winterize my mufflers? If so how on earth to I extract the water from them?

[Chasemmc]

My boat came with a full canvas cover. Haven't used it as the boat lives under cover in Tn. A picture can be seen on my profile page. The cover is located in north atlanta. Everyone on the forum has been very helpful to me and I would like to return the kindness. So, I offer it at no cost. It fits on a pallet and a pu truck. I have no way to ship, so pick up is probably the best option. Cheers

[MadHatter53]

I come in thru my dockside connection and with hot water tank bypassed I pressure things up with some -30 or -50 pink then go around and open all hot and cold faucets and showers til a good flow of pink comes out and enuff to clear the drains and shower sumps. My heads are seawater flushed so they are done thru the strainers and the bowls.

chase what great Karma, I would love to have that cover but your a bit far for me.

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

My boat came with a full canvas cover. Haven't used it as the boat lives under cover in Tn. A picture can be seen on my profile page. The cover is located in north atlanta. Everyone on the forum has been very helpful to me and I would like to return the kindness. So, I offer it at no cost. It fits on a pallet and a pu truck. I have no way to ship, so pick up is probably the best option. Cheers Now that’s a class act!