Anchoring question

[MikeP]

I noticed the post on anchor bridles a few days ago and it got me thinking about how I normally anchor and that it may not really be very secure.
When we anchor (5/16 BBB all chain rode--probably too light really) the windlass takes all the load through the chain gypsy. I realize there is a clutch there than can be released to allow the anchor to free-fall but I have that cranked down pretty tight. I do not have a chain stopper (but realize that I should). In any conditions I have yet encountered, it works fine.

But in looking at the whole operation and the boat structure and reading about the bridle, it occured to me that the weak link in the whole thing might be the bow pulpit, to which the windlass is mounted. I haven't actually looked at the structure but it appears that the bow pulpit is essentially a bolt-on to the deck. As such, how strong is the whole assembly? Putting a chain stopper in the system, bolted to the bow pulpit wouldn't seem to me to really provide any more security that what the windlass itself provides.

I'm thinking that the most secure way to anchor would be with the bridle as described in the anchor bridle post. It would be secured to the two VERY stout cleats on the foredeck. Seems a far more secure setup though it takes a lot more time. It's probably overkill for 90% of anchoring events but...

Or is the bow pulpit (with a chain stopper) much stronger than I think it is?

What are the typical anchoring arrangements that most folks use?

[Beckytek]

I had to remove my anchor pulpit last fall to repair the deck under it because of water intrusion. The pulpit looks like it is made up of laminated plywood from 2 to 3" thick. It is then fibreglassed on both sides, do to it's shape is very strong. It must weigh about 150 lbs or more. It is through bolted to the deck with at least 13 bolts all backed up with metal plates 1/2" thick. My chain stopper uses 6, 3/8" bolts about 5" long with backing plates. I don't think yours cleats are any stronger than all that. I have an all chain rode and use my chain stopper all the time. When it is choppy, I use a chain hook into the rode connected to 20' of nylon line which I tie off to a cleat. I leave a loop of chain so the line takes up the shock when the chain goes straight. :)

[Pascal]

i thought chain stoppers were meant to hold the anchor up while underway, to prevent it from falling overboard in case of a windlass failure? i dont' think they are meant to hold the boat when anchored.

When i just anchor for the day, I leave the rode on the windlass... Overnight, I cleat the chain... pulling it off the chain gipsy, routing it agasit the rope capstan and to one of the cleats. I also flip the breaker off. (ever been awaken at 5am to the sound of your windlass raising anchor because of huminidty in a foot switch ? )

I use all chain and in the conditions we have in florida, I've never felt the need to sue a bridle. I ahve one on board, 1" 3 strand spliced into a long Y, but i've never used it. rarely get over 15/20 kts and I've only had the all chain rode taught maybe one or twice. anchor held fine, no jerking motion.

one of the reasons i prefer to keep my anchor rode as simple as possible is if i need to leave in a hurry because of some jerk dragging into me... considering the anchoring skills of so fl boaters, I've had a few close calls...

[Beckytek]

The instruction manual that came with my Galley Maid windlass has a warning not to allow the boat to remain tied to the winch while at anchor. It says this can result in serious bodily injury. I don't see how that is possible but that's what it says. They also say to use a chain stopper to hold the boat while at anchor.

[REBrueckner]

For anchoring in typical (calm) boating conditions a quality windlass will hold your boat just fine. But if you read most windlass instructions they advise against pulling your boat forward with windlass power, against breaking the anchor out with windlass power, and against anchoring with just windlass drag. So in strong wind or waves, some type of supplement to hold the chain is advisable.
A simple and decent approach is a chain hook which slips over the chain, attached to nylon line and tied at a forward deck cleat. I've used one on 5/16 Hi test chain in f40 to 50 knot winds (48 ft YF) on several occasions without incident. I have read that in extreme conditions (Hurricane??) such a hook may add some stress and be a "weak link" via twisting action...In a hurricane there are likely many "weak links". I've also seen a "hook" mechanism which supposedly does not twist...and affixes with a "Y" bridle..maybe its in the West Marine catelogue. Anyway, a nylon line with several half hitches will do in a pinch..but those knots will not be easy to undo when you are ready to lift anchor.

When I added a pulpit to my YF (laminated plywood, fiberglass over, washdown copper tubing embedded inside the laminate) I discovered a 1/4" thick aluminum plate embedded in the bow deck of my boat!!. It ruined a wood hole boring bit before I realized it was there. I drilled holes for four thu deck bolts and all four had to go thru that aluminum plate. I added big washers under the deck in the rope locker for each bolt.

If I had your concerns, I'd get a flashlight and see if the pulpit is thru bolted in the rope locker. Assuming it is, inj my opinion there are more important things to ponder. Remember, your cleats are also thru bolted...and in a much tighter pattern area. A nylon line will likely part before any of these do.

[SKYCHENEY]

Most times I just tie a line around the chain and then let out some slack with the line tied to a cleat. This takes the load off of the windlass.

[jim rosenthal]

Actually as I understand it the windlass is NOT meant to hold the boat. The anchor chain should be immobilized with a chain stopper which is through-bolted to the deck, or a snubber line secured to a cleat or cleats. (I don't have a windlass so this is theory only). Read Earl Hinz' book, he's the best on this subject.

[Jaxfishgyd]

In the lastest issue of Passagemaker, it has a writeup on anchoring and shows a pic of how he uses a chain stopper tied to two ropes connected to the forward cleats that take the strain off the windlass. (connects a few feet below the pulpit)
My question at the time was how to do the same but using my 5/8th in nylon 3 strand rodes if I want to use move than one anchor at a time...
If I'm anchored up over night or if I think the weather might be bad I take the rode off the pulpit and secure it to one of the bow cleats. But that also puts the boat a bit off center on the anchor pull.....

[Maynard Rupp]

I think the bow pulpit issue depends on which model Hat you have. Our '86 36C has an incredibly substantial solid pulpit. I read all the horror stories when I was changing from a rope windlass to a rope and chain version of our galley maid. When i bored the 2" hole for the chain pipe, the core was all solid except the deck piece itself. The thing is mounted better than a bridge over an interstate highway. I installed a flip over chain stopper which we use when anchored and when the anchor is up to unload the windlass. After going through the windlass I shudder at those of you that are depending on that thing for holding your boats at anchor. They might hold OK, but the shaft in the windlass is brass. If you lety the shaft and its gypsy or drum hold the boat I am quite sure that shaft can be bent easily. Our chain stopper is simple and easy to use, why not unload that expensive winch unit?

[Nonchalant1]

MikeP,

Earl Heinz' book is the best on anchoring. For normal conditions, just use a chain hook on a nylon rope that goes to a bow cleat. Make sure it is the type that can't come off when it goes slack then tight, etc. Leave the chain going past the windlass through the bow pulpit. The windlass can take the sideways pressure from the chain as long as it doesn't have to take the pulling pressure from the anchor, and it keeps the chain going straight out the bow pulpit through the rollers. The bow pulpit is very strong and can take all anchoring conditions, unless it has been compromised by major water intrusion. Of course if the pulpit were compromised by water intrusion, your bow cleats could be bad too, so you gotta trust your boat to anchor. Or maybe like Reagan said, "trust but verify".

Heinz' book says that for high wave conditions, the bridle is good to keep the chain from coming up tight creating huge pressures big enough to damage any boat.

Doug Shuman

[bobk]

Maynard, Did you seal that 2" anchor chain hole in your deck? The raw balsa core seems to be the cause of the water intrusion in the fore deck of so many Hatteras'.

Bob

[SKYCHENEY]

Bob,
I did the same as Maynard when I converted to chain. I cut a 2" hole for the hawse and slid a piece of 1-1/2" pvc in there. I bedded the whole piece in with 5200. There was no balsa where I drilled, though. First was the teak inlay, then fiberglass, then aluminum, then more fiberglass. I thought I'd never get all of the way through there. The hole actually came through the edge of the gunnel below and didn't intrude into the deck coring.

[Maynard Rupp]

Maynard, Did you seal that 2" anchor chain hole in your deck? The raw balsa core seems to be the cause of the water intrusion in the fore deck of so many Hatteras'.

Bob
Yes I did, Bob. I hole sawed the hole to the OD of a 2" PVC pipe. I saturated both the inside of the hole and the outside of the rioughed up PVC with West epoxy and their 404 high density filler. I slid the pipe in and made sure the enrire hole was filled. The PVC provides a nice wear liner and the epoxy seals the hole.

[Maynard Rupp]

Bob,
I did the same as Maynard when I converted to chain. I cut a 2" hole for the hawse and slid a piece of 1-1/2" pvc in there. I bedded the whole piece in with 5200. There was no balsa where I drilled, though. First was the teak inlay, then fiberglass, then aluminum, then more fiberglass. I thought I'd never get all of the way through there. The hole actually came through the edge of the gunnel below and didn't intrude into the deck coring.

As I re-think this, I guess I used a 2" hole saw and a 11/2" pvc liner. I also hole sawed through every material imaginable, all solid though except the deck coring. The PVC was just the right size to fit under the Galley Maid chain pipe.