Long Range Cruising Question

[carol]

We have a beautiful 1978 53' Classic, but the fuel burn is a killer for our plans to do more long range cruising. Has anyone done any extended cruising with throttles pulled back on their 8V71's? If so, how well did it work and what was the fuel burn please? We would love to keep Gypsy Soul but may need to seriously consider moving to an LRC.
As always, your thoughts/comments/suggestions are very much appreciated and welcome!
Thanks- Carol
Gypsy Soul
Charleston, SC

[Boatsb]

Define long range cruising.

Bobk runs thousands of miles a year on his Detroit's with no problem. He runs up and down the icw and enjoys the ride.

If your looking at long crossings outside you may be better with a trawler. If the cruising is the icw it can do it.

[Scarlett]

We ran our 53 from San Francisco to San Diego non stop at just under 1000 rpm' so and burned about .8 gallons per mile at about 8.5 knots. It was pretty comfortable. I would not hesitate to run down to Mexico 1,000 miles or so. John

[jim rosenthal]

It seems like most of these boats are now being run at trawler speeds, from what I can gather. Doesn't seem to hurt them any. Does your boat have naturals or turbos?

[Shaunc]

I am glad I saw this thread as its been the discusion of the day onboard. Our 53 has the standard 550 gallons with natural 871's.

We are out of Tampa and want to go to meet up with friends in the BVI early next year. I have heard horror stories of bad fuel along the way. We are thinking of either going across to the East coat and then going Bahamas to Dominican, PR and onto BVI.

The other option is going Key West into Hemmingway in Cuba and then going through the Ycatan channel and hugging the leeward side of Cuba, DR, PR and then into the BVI as we risk cold fronts dropping down south that time of the year.

One friend recommended buying fuel ballders to carry another 250 gallons. I was thinking about trying to do a few test rund as about 1000-1100 rpm to see what range I can get, but I would love to get 1000 miles out of the lady, but would like some more input from others who have done it.

[carol]

Thanks as always I knew I could count on some great feedback here! We've got 871TI's (turbos) and would like to island hop down to Central America. We're full time live aboards and trying to decide if we need to give up the space of our 53' to go with fuel economy of 48' LRC.

[Tim Powell]

We have a beautiful 1978 53' Classic, but the fuel burn is a killer for our plans to do more long range cruising. Has anyone done any extended cruising with throttles pulled back on their 8V71's? If so, how well did it work and what was the fuel burn please? We would love to keep Gypsy Soul but may need to seriously consider moving to an LRC.
As always, your thoughts/comments/suggestions are very much appreciated and welcome!
Thanks- Carol
Gypsy Soul
Charleston, SC

Of course enjoying our boats is at the top of the list. Hurting the engines at low speed or RPM i do not know except to say I have 892TI in my 52c. Johnson towers cranked them and tweaked them per the information that came with the boat. It suggest not to troll at long intervals but to change RPM at about every 2 hours for approximately 1 to 2 min. Why i do not know and i have not done many times.
Mine are twin turbos but as i understand the turbos do not do much till about 1300 rpm. That is about where I can hear them winding up. So at idle or a little above i would say slow for a 2 to 3 hours then change rpn for a min or two would be in keeping with johnson towers thoughts.
You will have to admit or do you remember the 4.00 dollar a gallon fuel. That is when you really look for savings 1300 gal X 4 5.000 fill ups was murder.

[bobk]

We have a beautiful 1978 53' Classic, but the fuel burn is a killer for our plans to do more long range cruising. Has anyone done any extended cruising with throttles pulled back on their 8V71's? If so, how well did it work and what was the fuel burn please? We would love to keep Gypsy Soul but may need to seriously consider moving to an LRC.
As always, your thoughts/comments/suggestions are very much appreciated and welcome!
Thanks- Carol
Gypsy Soul
Charleston, SC

I have a 1981 48' Series I motor yacht with 6V92 TAs at 425 HP. I've put about 4000 hours on her at 1000 rpm which makes just over 8 kt. The 48 has a full keel and handles very well at trawler speed. Can you get to 2 NMPG? Probably, but you probably need to drop to 6 knots which might be 700 rpm. The problem at this rpm is the engines will not get hot enough to prevent coking.

The LRC is not appreciably more efficient than a motor yacht. But with smaller engines, they will run closer to their optimum load and rpm and therefore temperature. With the larger engines of the motor yachts, you might get away with 600-700 rpm if you use a good cetane enhancer to get a cleaner burn, AND run them up to temperature more frequently. I put mine on plane every 20-30 hours of 1000 rpm running. Perhaps twice a day might be in order for 600 rpm operation. And be sure you are running 170 or 180 degree thermostats.

Don't forget to take fuel burn for the generator into consideration. Also, if your 53 is not stabilized, take it off shore in somewhat adverse conditions and see what you think of beam and quartering seas. Some have reported them to be quite rolly. The ICW will be no issue, with just two or three exceptions when winds kick up a couple of the sounds.

Bobk

[Pascal]

What speed are you running at right now to say fuel is a killer?

On the 53 your maximum economical speed is 9kts. Push to 10kts and you ll be burning close to double... at 9 kts you should burn about 9gph with a clean bottom. Your engines should remain warm enough not to suffer. If you slow down to 8kts you re probably going to drop the fuel burn to 6 to 7gph

The absolute worst speed to run any boat at is between hull speed (9.25 on the 53) and planning speed. Something you don't realize until you run a boat with flow meters...

If you're going to run for hours and hours below hull speed a short time up on plan will be good for the engines.

For long range you greatly benefit from having an inverter on boat so you don't have to run the generator under way as that uses about 1 gph. Doesn't make a difference on short runs but if your range it right it s about 10%.

Plenty of fuel in the Bahamas and Turks n caicos. I ve been getting fuel for years in the Exumas or Nassau and never had an issue with quality. Prices are another issue Nassau is about $1.5 higher than Miami and the out islands can be $2 higher :(. Never went beyond the central Bahamas but I ve never heard of fuel quality problem in the TC or DR

It is a long run between TC and DR and very exposed with the trades on the bow

[krush]

Read this thread. Install bigger props:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?8373-Larger-Props-For-Efiency-And-Engine-Life-When-Running-Big-Engines-Slow

[Fanfare]

I love going places on my boat. In the years we have had Fanfare we usually cruise the Bahamas, but we have been as far north as Nova Scotia. We are not stabilized so we usually run offshore on plane, around 15-19 kts. This gives us a nominal range of about 150 nmi. before refueling. In sheltered waters we often run hull speed which greatly extends our range.

It had always been my dream to make the run along the "thorny path" to Venezuela. We tried about 20 years ago but were thwarted by the collapse of the only fuel dock at Clarencetown, Long Island, Bahamas. Fast forward to three years ago when my investment syndicate decided to trade our annual golf trip for a Caribbean cruise. From San Juan we went as far south as Barbados. It was quite educational.

It's about 200 nmi. from Florida to Eleuthera, about half of which is deep water ocean sailing, including crossing the Gulf Stream. In our younger days we would brave this passage. Now, with maturity and wisdom, we wait for a favorable weather window. Two to three foot seas or less are preferable. Bear in mind these are the wind-driven seas on top of the normal swell. When you get to five foot seas you are looking up from our flying bridge to the tops of the waves. We don't do this much any more. Going into the wind we take a lot of really heavy spray on the bridge. The rolling means it is hard for me to go below to check my engines. Sometimes things break. Here's what I learned from this cruise on a 300 ft. ship. It's almost always like that down there! And there are relatively few sheltered harbors such as we find in the Bahamas. Those islands are all mountain peaks coming up from surrounding deep water. There are only a few harbors where you won't be rolling your teeth out when you anchor in the ocean swell. Finding shelter from a storm would be a constant worry for me.

Note that I am not saying this can't be done--it can, and has been. But fun? This is sailboat country. Our coastal cruisers are not designed for this. We don't have the ability (range) to head out to sea to ride out bad weather. There are very few marinas on the islands we visited. Going on this cruise saved me a lot of time, trouble and money. I still want to make this trip, but I will do so in stages and I will charter a suitable local boat to do it in. Just my opinion.

[carol]

Read this thread. Install bigger props:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?8373-Larger-Props-For-Efiency-And-Engine-Life-When-Running-Big-Engines-Slow

Thanks for the link, very useful information!

[dastahl]

I have cruised on all sizes of LRCs. The major differences from MYs (other than speed) are tan
capacities and they have displacement hulls. You can slow down the MY engines to get about the
same fuel burn but the 48 LRC carries 1400 gallons, the 58 2400 gallons. And fresh water the
48 LRC 450 gallons and the 58 550.
The displacement hull is more comfortable at the slower speeds and is a little more efficient. Most of
the 48-58 LRCs have stabilizers for extended offshore adventures and most have water makers.

It occurs to me that selling and then buying a different boat is a lengthy and possible expensive
process. There are good reasons to downsize to an LRC. But if your aiming at a year or two in the
Caribbean I would put on a watermaker and fuel bladders for the long runs. Watch the weather.

Several 48 LRC on Yachtworld.com. None currently on the HatterasLRC.com web site but you can
check it out.

Skooch
Beaufort NC leaving for the Wye River Friday.

[carol]

I have cruised on all sizes of LRCs. The major differences from MYs (other than speed) are tan
capacities and they have displacement hulls. You can slow down the MY engines to get about the
same fuel burn but the 48 LRC carries 1400 gallons, the 58 2400 gallons. And fresh water the
48 LRC 450 gallons and the 58 550.
The displacement hull is more comfortable at the slower speeds and is a little more efficient. Most of
the 48-58 LRCs have stabilizers for extended offshore adventures and most have water makers.

It occurs to me that selling and then buying a different boat is a lengthy and possible expensive
process. There are good reasons to downsize to an LRC. But if your aiming at a year or two in the
Caribbean I would put on a watermaker and fuel bladders for the long runs. Watch the weather.

Several 48 LRC on Yachtworld.com. None currently on the HatterasLRC.com web site but you can
check it out.

Skooch
Beaufort NC leaving for the Wye River Friday.

Thanks Skooch, very much appreciate the feedback. We're in the investigation stage right now and are trying to consider all options. I believe you are very correct that it can be an expensive change and not really sure which way we'll go yet.
Thanks for link to LRC site, safe voyage! Carol

[Shaunc]

Pascal

I reaaly think I need to look into those Flow meters. Are they a easy retrofit on the old 871's?

[SeaWhisper]

What speed are you running at right now to say fuel is a killer?

On the 53 your maximum economical speed is 9kts. Push to 10kts and you ll be burning close to double... at 9 kts you should burn about 9gph with a clean bottom. Your engines should remain warm enough not to suffer. If you slow down to 8kts you re probably going to drop the fuel burn to 6 to 7gph

The absolute worst speed to run any boat at is between hull speed (9.25 on the 53) and planning speed. Something you don't realize until you run a boat with flow meters...

If you're going to run for hours and hours below hull speed a short time up on plan will be good for the engines.

For long range you greatly benefit from having an inverter on boat so you don't have to run the generator under way as that uses about 1 gph. Doesn't make a difference on short runs but if your range it right it s about 10%.

Plenty of fuel in the Bahamas and Turks n caicos. I ve been getting fuel for years in the Exumas or Nassau and never had an issue with quality. Prices are another issue Nassau is about $1.5 higher than Miami and the out islands can be $2 higher :(. Never went beyond the central Bahamas but I ve never heard of fuel quality problem in the TC or DR

It is a long run between TC and DR and very exposed with the trades on the bow

Ditto" on Pascal. We run our 53' with 8V71 Natural the same way for years. Last mile or two for the day we run the motors up and blow them out if needed.

[boatguy123@aol.com]

of course one of the major advantages of lrc's is fuel cap. my 58 lrc carries just shy of 2400 gal of fuel.
i can leave Baltimore and go to Miami and back to Baltimore again and still have 400 to 500 gal of fuel left.
and i have done it many times. more water cap more holding tnk cap, all big deals found only on lrc's