1981 Hatteras 56 MY- How badly does it need Niad stabilizers ?

[Milacron]

Seems like a pretty tall boat that would greatly benefit from Niads, even in the ICW if conditions a little rough or dealing with wakes from other large boats. What say ye ?

Cost to retrofit new stabilizers ? From a quick search, at least $55K including install/yard time.

[saltshaker]

What happened top the 60?

[Milacron]

What happened top the 60? Nothing..just looking at Plan B and C in case the 60 survey doesn't go well. Already been bitten once in that regard. Plus I'm simply curious. Friend of mine had a 48 foot Cheoy Lee LRC and says he'd never have a tall boat that LOA or longer without stabilizers ever again..like they are the greatest thing since the lightbulb.

[JLR]

I had a 1981 56 with stabilizers. I would not own that boat without them.

[Milacron]

I had a 1981 56 with stabilizers. I would not own that boat without them.As I suspected. Can you describe the boat rock 'n roll with them compared to turned off during various conditions ? Needed more at trawler speeds (8 to 10 knots) than at faster speeds, (16 knots) yes ?

[Boatsb]

Forget the survey and seatrial. Post some pics here and we can tell you what is wrong with it

Have you even been out on one a hatt motoryacht?

Maybe a charter? A friends boat?


I had been on more than one similar boat to mine when I bought it.

[saltshaker]

I had a 1981 56 with stabilizers. I would not own that boat without them.
I think you will get similar replies from most that owned stabilized boats. Question is how do you feel the boat is without them? Or if you can find a buyer who installed them after owning the boat for a while, they may be able to give you a more accurate assesment of how the boat was without them and if the addition of stabilizers was more of a want than a need. Stabilizers will be a big plus for you given your stated use and slow speed cruising. Most 53 owners like the ride of the 53MY. Those that have stabilizers will tell you the same as JLR did, they'd never own a 53MY without one. Stabilizers do greatly improve the ride at slow speeds for just about any boat. If you've never run or been out on one of these boats, consider asking for a sea trial prior to survey to determine if the ride is acceptable. Of course this would be on a boat that you have a signed contract and deposit on. Best would be to try and charter one if you can find one available.

[Finalee]

They reduce the roll on my 43 by 87%.
There are a couple utubes of boats with them on and off. They are like magic.

[Pascal]

In reasonably sheltered waters (ICW, most bays, etc) you don't reeally need them. If you re going to run offshore quite a bit and don't want to have to wait a day or so then yes, very nice to have.

I run a top heavy 70 footer, not a hatt, and between a skylounge, 14' tnder, jet ski and spare 34" wheels all up top I pick my days when crossing the stream or the NW channel. If not I sing "roll roll roll your boat, roll across the stream...) all the way to the exumas!

[Milacron]

Forget the survey and seatrial. Post some pics here and we can tell you what is wrong with it

OK, here ya go http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Hatteras-56-Motoryacht-2834685/Cape-Coral/FL/United-States#.VTUpKWajVFA

[JLR]

As I suspected. Can you describe the boat rock 'n roll with them compared to turned off during various conditions ? Needed more at trawler speeds (8 to 10 knots) than at faster speeds, (16 knots) yes ?

I always ran with the stabilizers on. Frankly, I never spent much time at trawler speed. I ran at cruising speed (16 kts) or at slow bell just in gear. The boat is real tank. It handles the seas very well. However, just like most MY's she is a bit skittish in a following sea. Do your homework on the prices of 56's that have sold. With all of that said, you do not want to own that boat without stabilizers. You will pay the price now (to install them) or pay the price later in a diminished ride and a tougher re-sale. Rest assured, the seller knows that not having stabilizers is a very big factor in pricing the sale of the boat--assuming someone is willing to buy it without stabilizers. I would not.

[Nightingale]

I have seen this boat quite a few times in the marina where the owners keep it. She has been for sale for a while and has had a lot of work completed on her fairly recently.

She looks better than she ever has during my time around the boat.

As a side note, I would not want one of these without stabilizers. It is a pretty large bill to have a set serviced completed as well, ask me how I know!

[Milacron]

I have seen this boat quite a few times in the marina where the owners keep it. She has been for sale for a while and has had a lot of work completed on her fairly recently.

For my curiosity, can you better define for sale "a while" ? Years ?

Regardless, enough of that boat...back to stabilizers....what about a Hatteras with presumably much lower center of gravity, like the more modern 52 Hatteras designs where one steps down into the salon and further still down into the staterooms ? Also some of these are pretty much a 48 footer with cockpit rather than full 52 MY (see below for example of the "sport deck" version, which is perhaps more like a 50 foot MY with huge swim platorm) If used in trawler mode would that design still benefit greatly from stabilizers as well or not so much as the taller older designs ?

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/Hatteras-Sport-Deck-2753509/Charleston/SC/United-States#.VTVvlmajVFA

[GJH]

I had a 1981 56 with stabilizers. I would not own that boat without them.

So did I. Likewise. Make a very big difference in open water especially.

Stabilizers will make a significant improvement to all these MY boats.

[bobk]

what about a Hatteras with presumably much lower center of gravity, like the more modern 52 Hatteras designs where one steps down into the salon and further still down into the staterooms ? Also some of these are pretty much a 48 footer with cockpit rather than full 52 MY (see below for example of the "sport deck" version, which is perhaps more like a 50 foot MY with huge swim platorm) If used in trawler mode would that design still benefit greatly from stabilizers as well or not so much as the taller older designs ?

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/Hatteras-Sport-Deck-2753509/Charleston/SC/United-States#.VTVvlmajVFA

I have a 1981 series I 48MY. Yes you step down to the living spaces, but there is still a lot of top side weight. I have Naiad's and they are great in trawler mode, although I think they were sized for 15 Kt cruise.

Some years back I followed an un-stabilized 53MY out of Cambridge, MD at about 8 Kts and the quartering sea had him rolling MUCH more than we were. Yep, stabilizers are a big help on MY's at hull speed. Even on the Bay.

Bobk

[Nonchalant1]

We bought a 53MY without stabilizers and after 2 years I put new Naiad stabilizers with the new digital controls on the boat. It was the best money I ever spent on the boat. It cost $43K in 2005 including paying for travel and lodging for 2 techs from Stabilized Marine.

It's incredible how well they work. The boat just doesn't roll. It can rock forward and back, but not roll side to side. I'd suggest finding a Hatt for sale or a friend's boat with stabilizers and going for a test ride on a day with even 2 to 3 ft. waves. Then run it with stabilizers on and with them turned off. What a difference. They also allow you to make maneuvers safely that you can't make without them. I was crossing the straits near Mackinac Island and got into 4 to 5 ft following waves and the Admiral wanted to turn around and go back in. Making that turn in a non-stabilized 53MY can be dangerous if not handled carefully and timed right because you will be abeam at slower speeds, but with stabilizers, I just turned the wheel and came about with no problem. Great for inconsiderate Searay wakes in the ICW too.
Doug

[Milacron]

We bought a 53MY without stabilizers and after 2 years I put new Naiad stabilizers with the new digital controls on the boat. It was the best money I ever spent on the boat. It cost $43K in 2005 including paying for travel and lodging for 2 techs from Stabilized Marine.

It's incredible how well they work. The boat just doesn't roll. It can rock forward and back, but not roll side to side. I'd suggest finding a Hatt for sale or a friend's boat with stabilizers and going for a test ride on a day with even 2 to 3 ft. waves. Then run it with stabilizers on and with them turned off. What a difference. They also allow you to make maneuvers safely that you can't make without them. I was crossing the straits near Mackinac Island and got into 4 to 5 ft following waves and the Admiral wanted to turn around and go back in. Making that turn in a non-stabilized 53MY can be dangerous if not handled carefully and timed right because you will be abeam at slower speeds, but with stabilizers, I just turned the wheel and came about with no problem. Great for inconsiderate Searay wakes in the ICW too.
Doug
Wow...your post is the final straw...I got to have 'em now ! Thanks ! :)

[tcpip95]

31 photos and not a single engine room pic? Hmm....

[Milacron]

31 photos and not a single engine room pic? Hmm.... I have been in that 56's engine rooms and can see why he would have avoided taking pictures of them. The boat is stunning beautiful...except for the engine rooms, which are another story. Also when asked to see the paperwork proving rebuilds just a few hundred hours ago the response was simply "I found one in a drawer"..... WTF ??

[Finalee]

I will say this about stabilizer's. They can make one over confident. It is still very important to take into consideration, weather, and sea conditions. Like I said earlier they are like magic!

[Glory]

When your underway on a nice day and you never turned on the stabilizes and you encounter a beam wake you instantly turn them on. The difference is huge.

Definitely an option to think about!

JM

[Milacron]

31 photos and not a single engine room pic? Hmm....It is curious that Nightinglale, an even nicer (and newer) Hat 56 also shows zero photos of the engine rooms on Yachtworld.

[Finalee]

It is curious that Nightinglale, an even nicer (and newer) Hat 56 also shows zero photos of the engine rooms on Yachtworld.
Stick to the topic. Stabalizers increase fuel economy too.

[Nightingale]

It is curious that Nightinglale, an even nicer (and newer) Hat 56 also shows zero photos of the engine rooms on Yachtworld.

I'm not sure where you guys are looking, but there are 12 photos of the engine room on the listing of Nightingale through yachtworld and one photo in the ad of the vessel in question.

[jim rosenthal]

Does anyone know of any comparisons of fin stabilizers versus Seakeeper gyro stabilizer? There would have to be a comparison of similar boats with Naiads vs. Seakeeper.

The Seakeeper will also work at the dock, which is kind of interesting, and doesn't increase drag- although at least one owner with Naiads has posted that the fuel economy improves with them switched on.

I have been on two boats with the gyro system, one of which belongs to a forum member. I was impressed, although we were not in rough water. It does what they say it will do.

[GJH]

Main selling point of the Seakeepers, in my opinion is stabilization at anchor or on the drift. That's why they were the first stabilizer system to be popular with the sportfishing crowd. Secondary, no protrusions through and outside the hull. You do have to have the genset running.

[Milacron]

Does anyone know of any comparisons of fin stabilizers versus Seakeeper gyro stabilizer? There would have to be a comparison of similar boats with Naiads vs. Seakeeper.

The Seakeeper will also work at the dock, which is kind of interesting, and doesn't increase drag- although at least one owner with Naiads has posted that the fuel economy improves with them switched on.

I have been on two boats with the gyro system, one of which belongs to a forum member. I was impressed, although we were not in rough water. It does what they say it will do.I don't have first hand experience with either but the disadvantage of the Seakeepers is noise, electrical usage* and cost. I have also read on trawler forums that if the seas get rough enough the gyro mechanism can get "confused" such that you have to turn them off !

Re cost, he 1977 Hatteras 58 in Pensacola that has twin Seakeepers the owner spent $175,000 on which all was said and done, whereas Naiads would have cost around $60,000 to ad. Having said that, I called Seakeeper about a month ago and they tell me their prices have dropped quite a bit since the Pensacola job.

*Supposedly the noise is not noticed if you are running the A/C and the generator...and you'd need to be running the generator away from the dock !

[saltshaker]

Stick to the topic. Stabalizers increase fuel economy too.
How so? The added drag of the fins would reduce performance and economy. I get that you run a straighter line with them on but I'd think the effect on economy would be small when running hull speed. That being said, I have them on my boat and she still performs very well.

[saltshaker]

The noise isn't an issue for most installations. For most of the boats that would have a gyro the generator will be running while away from the dock anyway. For me the generator is the first thing I start and the last thing I shut down when I'm away from the dock. Mine runs all the time we are out.

[Nonchalant1]

How so? The added drag of the fins would reduce performance and economy. I get that you run a straighter line with them on but I'd think the effect on economy would be small when running hull speed. That being said, I have them on my boat and she still performs very well.

You don't have to steer so much to quarter the waves, etc. however there is "stabilizer steer" which makes the boat produce small turns while on course as the stabilizer fins do their work and keep it level. It is not enough to bother your autopilot or course, but it is noticeable if you follow a stabilized boat in 3-5 seas or more. I measured fuel burn before and after the installation and saw no difference.

[GJH]

One thing that surprises some newbies is that stabilizers reduce one movement only: roll. Pitch, yaw and heave are all still in place. Rough quartering seas could really move my boat around; Ann was particularly sensitive to certain combinations of yaw and pitch. We learned what needed to be secured in a seaway by trial and error, rearranging the salon and breaking the odd dish in the galley a few times.

I don't see how they could improve fuel efficiency, but I always had them on (which Naiad and the techs I knew all recommended)) except to center them in close quarters maneuvering if I remembered to. If I forgot to turn them to "on" after leaving the dock, it usually wasn't long until we were reminded to do so.

[Boatsb]

The sea keepers use a completely different technology than fins. Adding them after the fact may not work as well as designing a vessel for them. I'm sure the 2 smaller units under the aft bunk are not the best solution. Then again if I were to buy a boat with stabilizers I'd probably want the gyros over the fins but further forward and even outboard if a pair. Look at the physics and I think that's a better way to deploy them.

As for fuel economy. Who cares. It's a boat and an extra .001 MPG is not going to change my life.

[Finalee]

How so? The added drag of the fins would reduce performance and economy. I get that you run a straighter line with them on but I'd think the effect on economy would be small when running hull speed. That being said, I have them on my boat and she still performs very well.

I actually meant when the stabs are on. Never actually measured the difference. Read it somewhere. The basis was that with them on the boat tracks truer. And that is true. My helm motion is reduced when they are on.

[SKYCHENEY]

The sea keepers use a completely different technology than fins. Adding them after the fact may not work as well as designing a vessel for them. I'm sure the 2 smaller units under the aft bunk are not the best solution. Then again if I were to buy a boat with stabilizers I'd probably want the gyros over the fins but further forward and even outboard if a pair. Look at the physics and I think that's a better way to deploy them.

As for fuel economy. Who cares. It's a boat and an extra .001 MPG is not going to change my life.

I think the gyros need to mounted on the center line.

[Boatsb]

I know they mount aft of the center line but I thought I saw a pair behind the engines on a big sporty.

Either way their not in my future. I don't have the space for them to begin with.

[saltshaker]

I know they mount aft of the center line but I thought I saw a pair behind the engines on a big sporty.

Either way their not in my future. I don't have the space for them to begin with.
They are supposed to be mounted on the centerline and in the aft 1/3 of the boat. Ideal location in a SF is under the cockpit just aft of the ER/cabin bulkhead. The 65C installation I saw had three of them mounted under the ER sole between the engines. Most of the heavier boats under 100' use 2 or 3 units instead of a single big one. The bigger unit is designed for big, heavy MYs in the 100ft+ range.

[Boatsb]

I couldn't fit a basketball behind my engines. Maybe a small beach ball in below decks in the cockpit. Design from the beginning and things may fit better. As a retrofit in a small sporty I see very little space and one I'd want to give up.

How about mounting a radial engine on a pod so the flywheel becomes a stabilizer?

[saltshaker]

I couldn't fit a basketball behind my engines. Maybe a small beach ball in below decks in the cockpit. Design from the beginning and things may fit better. As a retrofit in a small sporty I see very little space and one I'd want to give up.

How about mounting a radial engine on a pod so the flywheel becomes a stabilizer?
Finding the space is a challenge for a mid size or smaller SF. Even new boats don't typically have that much free space to install a gyro. Most of the installs I've seen pics of were in 60ft+ boats.

[34Hatt]

I couldn't fit a basketball behind my engines. Maybe a small beach ball in below decks in the cockpit. Design from the beginning and things may fit better. As a retrofit in a small sporty I see very little space and one I'd want to give up.

How about mounting a radial engine on a pod so the flywheel becomes a stabilizer?

You would have to do it in-between your two tanks under the cockpit sole same placed as mine.
In my case I would just have to give up my fresh water but I can give the wife a 5 gallon water jug :cool:

[Bradley.Kohr.II]

So, are these necessary for a MY to be seaworthy?

We're looking at getting a Hatteras to loop between Charleston, Tampa and Naples.

Being abeam to 4-5' seas wouldn't strike me as ideal, but it's not something I would normally be seriously intimidated by - certainly not in the ~44-53' range we are looking at.

[Milacron]

So, are these necessary for a MY to be seaworthy?

We're looking at getting a Hatteras to loop between Charleston, Tampa and Naples.

Being abeam to 4-5' seas wouldn't strike me as ideal, but it's not something I would normally be seriously intimidated by - certainly not in the ~44-53' range we are looking at. Seeing as a few months ago we bought a 1993 Viking 65 CP MY in Naples and brought it to near Charleston, I'm a bit confused by the "loop" aspect...maybe you mean Naples, Italy ;).. But regarding Naiad stabilizers I was the one who started this topic and the Viking does have them.

We didn't encounter any seas greater than 3 or 4 feet (mostly less than that) the entire trip back so I'm still no authority on the subject, but in that experience the Naiads were nice to have but not essential really. I would cut them off from time to time, then back on just to feel the difference....and it was nice, but not the "night and day" difference I was led to believe they would be by some friends with trawlers.

[rsmith]

So how is something that induces parasite drag and expends energy to resist the boats natural desire to roll in a seaway not use more fuel and slow the boats forward energy????

[rsmith]

I'm also waiting for a SF with a sea keeper to go down. As most of us who have laid offshore for tuna or swordfish know,every once in a while you take a wave in the cockpit. I could see a boat resisting the roll take way more than the crest of the wave over the rail. Anyone remember that 125'SF K Hovnanian sunk in the 80's? They took a wave in the cockpit and went straight to the bottom.

[Boatsb]

Stabilizers can't fix bad designs. I was running a 58 northern marine in 12 to 15 foot seas. Topheavy is an understatement. With the stabilizers she handles like a water bed falling down stairs. With them off she rolled even worse. I would not recomend running it in anything over 5 foot if you want to keep things and people off the floor. At least the cog on a sporty is lower than my and trawlers. As soon as the cog meets the cob your going over.

[jim rosenthal]

Yes, like that one on the West Coast that had all those change orders on it, and sank when they launched it? Nice going, guys. Wasn't that Northern Marine? No thank you. This is what happens when you cross a shore-based condo, four stories, with a boat.

[Boatsb]

Same yard but not sure of the designer.

[jim rosenthal]

I suspect he'd rather no one knew his name. The yard went broke and filed for chapter right after that. And a fellow I know has a partly completed boat in the same yard that as far as I know is STILL stuck there, months later.

It's no joke when this happens to anyone, but when it happens to someone in their sixties or seventies, it's really no joke. It's not like you would have another thirty or forty years of cruising left.

[Boatsb]

I suspect he'd rather no one knew his name. The yard went broke and filed for chapter right after that. And a fellow I know has a partly completed boat in the same yard that as far as I know is STILL stuck there, months later.

It's no joke when this happens to anyone, but when it happens to someone in their sixties or seventies, it's really no joke. It's not like you would have another thirty or forty years of cruising left.

If I were having a multi million dollar vessel made I would not only have staff on site but I would have the company post bond for milestones and delivery. It's standard in many industries. Within 60 days of their breach or upon their bankruptcy I'd have my money and be at another yard.

[jim rosenthal]

I agree. There's too much at stake to just rely on them to do what they say they will. I would do that as well. Plus, I'd avoid changing the design once it was certified for stability- I think that's what did that boat in, all the stuff added above the roll center, I think it's called. And the cost of periodic on-site surveys would be a lot less than the cost of having to move your boat to another yard once they went broke and didn't finish it.

[GJH]

If I were having a multi million dollar vessel made I would not only have staff on site but I would have the company post bond for milestones and delivery. It's standard in many industries. Within 60 days of their breach or upon their bankruptcy I'd have my money and be at another yard.

Not if they go bankrupt, you wouldn't.

[Boatsb]

Not if they go bankrupt, you wouldn't.

You sure do with a bond. It protects you from all kinds of bs. I know when I post a one I have to show financial stability as part of the cost factor..