Wiring Practices

[solanderi]

It has been already established on this site that high quality marine tinned (Ancor) wire is the standard. What about butt-end connectors, should those be heat shrunk with an open flame or is it better to use the liquid electric tape products? Thank you,

Greg

[Genesis]

If you can avoid using them don't use them at all. Run to a terminal block instead.

If you absolutely MUST use them (e.g. an instrument with wires not long enough to reach to a terminal block) I crimp and then use liquid electrical tape.

[Maynard Rupp]

What is "liquid electrical tape" and where can you get it. We have used a shrink tubing that is clear and has an inner sleeve. When heated with a heat gun, the outside shrinks and the inside melts. Neat stuff, but I don't remember where it came from. I do remember that it wasn't cheap.

[Genesis]

BoatUS/West carries it... you paint it on and it hardens up into a water-impervious barrier.....

[DickB]

Genesis:

I'm confused. Even if you use a terminal block, don't you also use a butt end connecter on the end of the wire? Can't imagine that you'd just wrap the bare wire around the terminal. But I've been wrong many times before!

Dick

[Genesis]

That's not a butt connector. Butt connectors join two wires together.

A ring terminal is what you're thinking of, and yes, I use them. If they go somewhere that MIGHT get wet they get sealed with the liquid tape (after being crimped) too. The prime contenders for that treatment are bonding wires, although that is by no means the end of the list :)

[jim rosenthal]

Ancor sells the shrink tubing that has the liquid glue inside it that seals the butt splice. Karl is correct that all wiring should be "home runs" and that butt splices are yet another potential source of poor connections and fire hazards, but sometimes they are inevitable, particularly when you are talking about pulling out forty feet of wire just to avoid a butt splice. In that instance, a terminal block and separate extending wire is a better choice.

[Genesis]

Also note that 100% tinned wire holds up MUCH better than plain copper. The latter in a salt air environment, even without direct exposure to water, quickly loses its integrity and over the space of a few years turns to dust internally - often up inside the jacket where you can't see the damage.

[DeeRow]

I'm as confused as Dick. To connect two wires using a terminal block and ring connectors still requires two crimps on the ring connectors PLUS two connections with a screw. How is this better than one butt connector with only two crimps?

Anchor sells butt connectors with shrink wrap adhesive. I have been making my connections using these and putting dielectric grease on the wire ends before crimping. Then I use a heat gun to finish the connection.

Mark

[Genesis]

I'm as confused as Dick. To connect two wires using a terminal block and ring connectors still requires two crimps on the ring connectors PLUS two connections with a screw. How is this better than one butt connector with only two crimps?

Anchor sells butt connectors with shrink wrap adhesive. I have been making my connections using these and putting dielectric grease on the wire ends before crimping. Then I use a heat gun to finish the connection.

Mark
What happens if you have to work on or troubleshoot that connection?

How do you know where the fault is if you have a butt connector in the circuit? You can't possibly know.

If you have ring terminals to a block you can replace either end without disturbing the other, AND you have two test points. So a bad connection can be repaired with relative ease and its easier to maintain.

[Maynard Rupp]

The only place I would ever use a but splice is to connect a radio or instrument that is supplied with wiring too short to reach a terminal strip. You just can't put terminal strips all over the place. They would look unruly. Places such as under the console on the flybridge, inside helm etc. are areas where but splicing is inevitable.

[Genesis]

The only place I would ever use a but splice is to connect a radio or instrument that is supplied with wiring too short to reach a terminal strip. You just can't put terminal strips all over the place. They would look unruly. Places such as under the console on the flybridge, inside helm etc. are areas where but splicing is inevitable.

Wrongola.

You CAN put terminals strips all over the place IF you have a decent design originally.

You won't find butt splices under MY helm. You will find terminal blocks mounted on epoxy-coated plywood which is then epoxied to the fiberglass of the helm, giving them a good place to be mounted TO.

A lot of them too - the original ones from Hatteras, and then all that have been added, with the added wires neatly tie-wrapped to conform with the factory-installed bundles.

The Glacier Bay I owned was built like most production boats these days when it came to wiring. I did my own electronics in that boat and did it ALL to terminal strips - the same way they were done on my Hatt. Epoxy up a piece of plywood, screw the strips to that, and have at it.

The guy I sold it to will be able to actually FIX anything I added to the boat. Now the factory wiring? If that takes a crap he's going to have a LOT of fun.

WHEN (not if!) I have to troubleshoot something in there its actually doable. Try it if you've got butt splices - its simply impossible to meter out a wire if you can't get to a place where you can measure.

[jim rosenthal]

Actually this is not quite as hard as it sounds, at least in some areas. I put terminal strips for hot, negative and ground at my helm inside the bridge. I also have a breaker panel up there which runs the individual electronics- it comes off a large separate breaker in the engine room. The fused leads from each radio etc go the breakers. My reason for doing this, and for setting up the bilge pumps etc on small terminal strips, was that I got tired of having to undo connections to replace wear items and things that needed servicing- like pumps etc. And I have found that terminal strips are better than splices in that you can easily read the terminal strips with a VOM, where in order to see if there's current, and how much, in the butt splice you have to take it apart- ie do it over. So it does work out better in the long run. It costs more, but the overall cost of wiring items is less by far than we spend on diesel engine parts. And, FWIW, on the last survey, which was for myself, I got very few dings on electrical items- the boat was, for the most part, up to ABYC standards.

[Eufaula]

Terminal blocks/strips are, I am guessing are the same thing. I do agree with terminal blocks in place it is a walk in the park to trouble shoot. With a F-meter it is easy to find the open section of the wire. The heat shrink I use when I use it, do not have glue inside of it, heat shrinking seals out moisture. why the glue? :eek: James

[Maynard Rupp]

I agree that servicing is much easier if ALL wires go to terminal strips. I just had to remove my Groco toilet to change all the rubber parts,(17 years), and the Hatteras wiring, (2 wires), that power the flushing motor were but spliced and neatly wrapped with tape. The wires on the motor are only 4" long. I can't imagine where I could have neatly installed a terminal strip. I also recently had to re-build my water pump and those power wires, while neatly loomed and strapped with adel clamps, had but splices. This could have been replaced with a small 2 terminal strip, but I just did what Hatteras did and but spliced the quite short motor wires to the plus and minus power feed wires.

[SKYCHENEY]

Butt connectors are junk! I just installed a new toilet and I used ring terminals and a new terminal block. If I ever need to pull it out to work on it, all I have to do is loosen a couple of screws, unhook the hoses and pull it out. Just as easy to reinstall later.

[38Bill]

Terminal strips with anti corrosion lube and epoxy heat shrink tubing with tinned wiring are great if the connections are in a dry or semi dry area.

For all wet area wiring, I prefer to use soldering and/ or EPOXY heat shrink tubing, and skip the terminal strip. When you heat the epoxy tube, the epoxy glue heats, and flows out each end, sealing air and moisture out.

Our standard for wiring varies according to where the wiring is located. We plan for everything from dry marine environments to electric systems designed for full submersion. When we go back a year later to service something, we see what REALLY holds up. Terminal strips in wet areas are a pain in the neck: The connection begins to degrade as soon as it is made. Something to think about.

[Maynard Rupp]

I thought I might share with you our wiring practices for aircraft. The wire is all white and is run through a labeling machine. This wire is a form of stainless but takes solder. We use no crimp connectors or but splices. Each bundle of wires has a gold pinned connector on each end. The bundle ends anywhere where you pass through a bulkhead and has a bulkhead connector rivited through a hole in the frame. The wiring connectors are screwed on each side after potting with "Dow Corning #4", a silicone based grease. They are then safety wired to prevent loosening. Wiring is NEVER bundled with those stupid tiewraps. We use lacing cord which is a waxed flat cord. After you get the hang of it you can bundle wires up in less time and money. The best part is you don't scratch your hands and arms when you work in the area. Airplanes are often subject to salt air @ 90 degrees, then climb to -60 degrees, stay there for 7 hours, then land in a humid drizzle. We certainly don't have that harsh of an environment with boats, but maybe aome of those methods are worth incorporating. Surely the use of lacing cord instead of tie-wraps makes lots of sense.

[OVERSPRAY]

Gentlemen, lets not forget a very important part of electrical wiring repair/installation... SOLDER...Ancor stuff is good and readily available. I buy the various conectors, but I buy them without the plastic sleeve. All repairs, conections, crimps should be soldered and then heat shrink(I like the black tube better than the clear stuff, it seams a little thinner and seams to ooze more glue out of it when heated) If I were to repair a wire with a butt (end to end) connection I wouldn't use a connector at all. Most electrical failures originate at a connection. I would never put a butt connector mid stream. I split the stripped end of each wire in half and twist forming a "Y" then twist both halves to its mate on the adjoining wire and solder the repair. this meathod will rarely fail and avoids corrosion from the dissimilar metal in the butt connectors. I know soldering takes a lot more time but everywhere I have taken the time to do it and do it right I have never had to go back and do it again. The liquid electrical tape works good but its a mess and doesn't look as nice as shrink tube. I keep a can in my box though and will use it in a concealed area.

[Genesis]

Solder is a dissimilar metal from the conductors.

This is a good practice in some cases, but it absolutely requires sealing against the elements or it WILL turn the wire to powder over time.

Also, soldered wires require extremely solid restraint and cannot be used in vibration-prone areas without great care, as they form "hard points" which then precipitate failures at that point.

I'm a fan of soldering in the right environment but you have to be very careful where and how you use it on a boat.

[OVERSPRAY]

Agreed. Solder IS a disimilar metal, but that melted heat bond is hard to beat. the corrosion will start right where the solder ends if it is not properly sealed.

So I'd say the absolute most important thing above all what type of sealing is used. It pretty much doesn't matter how good your connection is. If it is exposed to the elements, it will at some point be a potential problem.

I too am in favor of terminal blocks, and prefer not to butt connect anything but if I have to I take great care to do it right.

Also, the heat shrink tube helps to strengthen the hard spot in the wire and keep it from flexing and breaking. Liquid tape won't give you any ridgidity, but it is a good sealer.