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View Full Version : OK. Back to my ANCHOR quandary . . . .



Native4
05-09-2012, 10:10 PM
I just bought an '01 , 75' MY. Came with 300' of 3/8" chain. And a bent ( no surprise there) 60 lb Danforth . ( Yes. Really.)


My question:


I want to put the best anchor for Bahamas and South Florida I can. I have read the prior threads and I appreciated all the input. Am impressed with Fortress performance in tests I have read.

But I just wonder how you determine the largest heaviest anchor ( FX125?) that will fit on the existing bow pulpit.

Trial and error ? Or is there a measurement method?

MikeP
05-10-2012, 09:02 AM
The limiting factor on our 53MY is the distance between the bow roller and the front of the anchor chute. In our case, an FX55 will not fully seat at the top of the chute because the anchor shank, where it joins the anchor, is wider than that opening. So measure the distance from your bow roller to the front of the chute and compare that dimension with the width (actually the front to rear distance) of the Fortress shank where it connects to the flukes.

We use the FX55 but the slightly wedge shape of the shank stopping the anchor short of seating means the anchor can sort of wobble back and forth as the shank is wedged between roller/front of chute. This is not a big deal - we use a line to secure the anchor from doing that but that will be the issue. The end of the shank (where the chain is attached) will end up well above the windlass gypsy and since the anchor itself won't be seated against the chute, the shank cannot rotate so that the chain can hold the anchor without wobbling. It doesn't really affect anything but it will require a line to secure the anchor firmly as opposed to just having the windlass/chain do it.

Hope this isn't too confusing a description... ;)

bobk
05-10-2012, 09:13 AM
Those of us with larger SuperMax anchors have the same issue Mike described. I howered my roller by bolting an extension plate to the chute. Works fine. I posted a picture of how I did it somewhere on the forum.

Bobk

Native4
05-10-2012, 09:29 AM
The limiting factor on our 53MY is the distance between the bow roller and the front of the anchor chute. In our case, an FX55 will not fully seat at the top of the chute because the anchor shank, where it joins the anchor, is wider than that opening. So measure the distance from your bow roller to the front of the chute and compare that dimension with the width (actually the front to rear distance) of the Fortress shank where it connects to the flukes.

We use the FX55 but the slightly wedge shape of the shank stopping the anchor short of seating means the anchor can sort of wobble back and forth as the shank is wedged between roller/front of chute. This is not a big deal - we use a line to secure the anchor from doing that but that will be the issue. The end of the shank (where the chain is attached) will end up well above the windlass gypsy and since the anchor itself won't be seated against the chute, the shank cannot rotate so that the chain can hold the anchor without wobbling. It doesn't really affect anything but it will require a line to secure the anchor firmly as opposed to just having the windlass/chain do it.

Hope this isn't too confusing a description... ;)


Not at all. Thanks. I am just not convinced that carrying a heavier Danforth will be "better" than a Fortress. I had a Delta on last boat.

What do you think of this:

http://billspringer.blogspot.com/2011/03/which-anchor-holds-best-14-anchors-are.html

Boatsb
05-10-2012, 10:00 AM
Not at all. Thanks. I am just not convinced that carrying a heavier Danforth will be "better" than a Fortress. I had a Delta on last boat.

What do you think of this:

http://billspringer.blogspot.com/2011/03/which-anchor-holds-best-14-anchors-are.html

Just a thought but the fortress is a lighter weight version of a danforth in most every way. If it's attached to a line it gives the ability for someone with a bad back to lift and handle it. If its attached to chain that becomes impossible. Since you are using a windless the weight is not the issue so get the best fit and dont worry about spending all the extra money for a light weight anchor.

Pascal
05-10-2012, 10:14 AM
Real world conditions can't be duplicated in tests...

A 60lbs on a 75 footer? Previous owner must have been a marina jumper and rarely anchor!

Personally i m a Bruce / Claw fan... We have a 176lbs on the 70 Johnson I run (19' beam and high windage enclosed FB) and it has never failed me. We anchor out a lot, I recently came back from a month in the exumas where we spent most of the time on the hook and it always set on the first time and always reset in current (current reset is a good reason to stay away from Danfirth/FX)

It also works great in soft mud where a delta will drag. On the trips north to New England, I usually only dock 3 or 4 nights and anchor out the other 20 or so, again it s always set, held and reset in tidal anchorages

Here in So Fl, there is a spot with soft mud by Key Biscayne where a delta just will not hold. The Bruce holds great...
The shape works well on most pulpit, it fits well as a replacement to a cute little 66 SS Danfirth that was on the boat before

And don't follow the minimum size in selection charts. Early on i used a 110lbs Bruce which held fine up to around 40kts, the 176lbs has held up 70kts (south Carolina mud, and Edgartown sand)

dastahl
05-10-2012, 05:18 PM
I really have no idea why tsting anchors is so difficult but I've seen a few and disagree with their results. And they usually flunk the claw/Bruce and the plow which make up by far the most used anchors in the cruising fleet.
Perhaps it is the size factor. Most cruisers find out they sleep much better with bigger gear. One trawler list guy used to say get the biggest anchor you can get on and off your boat. Sounds about right. May be the bigger heavier anchors dig in better in most bottoms.
My 42 LRC has a 75 Lb Super Max with 3/8 chain. My 58 LRC has a 110 lb CQR with 1/2 inch chain. I am going to get a North Star 176 lb claw for Big Skooch as soon as I can. Unless I can find a 176 authentic Bruce.
BTW we just got up to the Sassafras from south Florida. 17 days cause we could not get offshore. 5 days at marinas Palm Coast, (2) Thunderbolt, Beafort SC, Coinjock and 12 nights anchored.
David

GJH
05-10-2012, 06:49 PM
Real world conditions can't be duplicated in tests...

A 60lbs on a 75 footer? Previous owner must have been a marina jumper and rarely anchor!

Personally i m a Bruce / Claw fan... We have a 176lbs on the 70 Johnson I run (19' beam and high windage enclosed FB) and it has never failed me. We anchor out a lot, I recently came back from a month in the exumas where we spent most of the time on the hook and it always set on the first time and always reset in current (current reset is a good reason to stay away from Danfirth/FX)

It also works great in soft mud where a delta will drag. On the trips north to New England, I usually only dock 3 or 4 nights and anchor out the other 20 or so, again it s always set, held and reset in tidal anchorages

Here in So Fl, there is a spot with soft mud by Key Biscayne where a delta just will not hold. The Bruce holds great...
The shape works well on most pulpit, it fits well as a replacement to a cute little 66 SS Danfirth that was on the boat before

And don't follow the minimum size in selection charts. Early on i used a 110lbs Bruce which held fine up to around 40kts, the 176lbs has held up 70kts (south Carolina mud, and Edgartown sand)

Where at Key Biscayne? My Delta has held there fine many times in reversing currents off Cape Florida/ No Name harbor and Nixon Cove off the yacht club. Have not anchored in No Name proper. It has also done fine through the Chesapeake, though I prefer a Danforth type or Supermax for there, though I never get around to switching over when there.

Glory
05-10-2012, 08:14 PM
I'm a claw fan also, 70# claw on a 58 with good results. As for the light weight anchor, nobody buys a Hat to have a light weight boat so why have a lightweight anchor to do a heavy weight job?

JM

ron6785
05-10-2012, 10:04 PM
On our 53MY I run 300plus ft of 3/8 chain on a Rocna 88lb anchor which has never failed to hold in just about every kind of condition. Previously I've had Deltas and Bruce both of which failed in some circumstances.

I think the Rocna and Manson anchors tested best in a Sail Mag review using mud sand and grass as three different type bottoms some years back. There was a German designed anchor , the name escapes me now, that also tested well all three of these anchors were of similar design with roll bars.

As Pascal mentioned the problem with fortress/Danforth is changing current & tides causing the boat to swing on the anchor several times per day. which may cause the anchor to reset and that is not a plus for either of these two anchors.

Pascal
05-11-2012, 09:30 AM
George

There is a patch of soft mud, maybe 200' wide, across from and slightly to the the south of the Nixon helipad. I have never been been able to get Angela's delta 88 to set properly there... Move a couple hundred feet and the mud is thicker resulting in a good set. On the other hand my FX55 or Charmer's claw has never failed to set and hold in that spot

On the other hand, in a place like Eliot where you have a thin layer of sand over hard coral, the delta sharp tip can grab on whereas the FX sometimes won't.

But the key to anchoring isn't really the anchor, it s scope, size and giving It a chance to dig in.

One last thing for the claw is price... While I certainly wouldn't choose an anchor base on price, about $350 for a 110lbs and $450 for a 176lbs is hard to beat

thoward
05-11-2012, 12:19 PM
I think the Rocna and Manson anchors tested best in a Sail Mag review using mud sand and grass as three different type bottoms some years back. There was a German designed anchor , the name escapes me now, that also tested well all three of these anchors were of similar design with roll bars.


I have been looking in to that Manson Supreme. That rock slot would be great for the fishing folks.(if it works)

jim rosenthal
05-11-2012, 04:01 PM
You might also look at the latest issue of Practical Sailor for some interesting anchor rode tests.

I have had good luck with Fortresses and carry several. I also have a SPADE which I am hoping to test this summer. Consistently in the Chesapeake, Fortresses do well- one of them saved my previous boat from a near-certain grounding. Another advantage of aluminum anchors is that they stay somewhat cleaner- they don't corrode as much.

ron6785
05-11-2012, 09:53 PM
I have been looking in to that Manson Supreme. That rock slot would be great for the fishing folks.(if it works)If your talking about the trip line slot , it does not work in fact in boat swing actually works to release the anchor, which is what you don't want.

Native4
05-13-2012, 11:38 AM
Just a thought but the fortress is a lighter weight version of a danforth in most every way. If it's attached to a line it gives the ability for someone with a bad back to lift and handle it. If its attached to chain that becomes impossible. Since you are using a windless the weight is not the issue so get the best fit and dont worry about spending all the extra money for a light weight anchor.



Excellent point. The Fortress I use on a smaller fishing boat is deployed and retrieved by hand. Also, one thing I overlooked about the weight of a fortress is that if you let the anchor drop too quickly the chain falls faster than the light weight anchor causing fouling.

Native4
05-13-2012, 11:41 AM
Real world conditions can't be duplicated in tests...

A 60lbs on a 75 footer? Previous owner must have been a marina jumper and rarely anchor!

Personally i m a Bruce / Claw fan... We have a 176lbs on the 70 Johnson I run (19' beam and high windage enclosed FB) and it has never failed me. We anchor out a lot, I recently came back from a month in the exumas where we spent most of the time on the hook and it always set on the first time and always reset in current (current reset is a good reason to stay away from Danfirth/FX)

It also works great in soft mud where a delta will drag. On the trips north to New England, I usually only dock 3 or 4 nights and anchor out the other 20 or so, again it s always set, held and reset in tidal anchorages

Here in So Fl, there is a spot with soft mud by Key Biscayne where a delta just will not hold. The Bruce holds great...
The shape works well on most pulpit, it fits well as a replacement to a cute little 66 SS Danfirth that was on the boat before

And don't follow the minimum size in selection charts. Early on i used a 110lbs Bruce which held fine up to around 40kts, the 176lbs has held up 70kts (south Carolina mud, and Edgartown sand)



Well, thanks ., This is a good response as I plan to sped time in Exumas and I live across the Bay from Key Biscayne and know exactly the spot ( I think) you are referring to . ( Off Nixon's old home? ) SImilar mud conditions of Elliot Key .

I will look into Bruce, thanks again.

Pascal
05-13-2012, 07:37 PM
Yep! Off the old Nixon home and helipad. I m anchored there right now, dropped the big Bruce, as usual set instantly.

Eliott is usually a thin layer of sand over coral, never really found mud there... Where "across the bay are you?". My boat is at DKM and 70 I run is at monty's

thoward
05-13-2012, 11:02 PM
If your talking about the trip line slot , it does not work in fact in boat swing actually works to release the anchor, which is what you don't want.
That is what we need to happen when we get rocked up. With the danforth(only when bottom fishing), we have to shackle the chain to the mud palms and use large zip ties to tie to the the shank. It is strong enough to hold but will break away and allow you to back it out when it gets stuck.

Native4
05-14-2012, 12:46 AM
Yep! Off the old Nixon home and helipad. I m anchored there right now, dropped the big Bruce, as usual set instantly.

Eliott is usually a thin layer of sand over coral, never really found mud there... Where "across the bay are you?". My boat is at DKM and 70 I run is at monty's


Yes, you are right. I was actually thinking of an experience I had with a dragging anchor one night during a nasty blow where I had pulled up at Elliot and re anchored further south on the lee at Pumpkin Key just West of Ocean Reef in the Bay. That Night we plowed mud quite a ways. I had a Delta and am sure I had insufficient scope. But I had all-chain rode.

boatguy123@aol.com
05-15-2012, 03:36 PM
i have a 110,000 lb 58 lrc and have never moved with my 110 lb bruce claw. we anchor a lot

Glory
05-15-2012, 11:26 PM
You might also look at the latest issue of Practical Sailor for some interesting anchor rode tests.

I have had good luck with Fortresses and carry several. I also have a SPADE which I am hoping to test this summer. Consistently in the Chesapeake, Fortresses do well- one of them saved my previous boat from a near-certain grounding. Another advantage of aluminum anchors is that they stay somewhat cleaner- they don't corrode as much.

I don't know if the tests done by "Practical Sailor", or if the words Practical Sailor even makes sense, would apply to a boat with as much windage as a motor yacht.

JM

jim rosenthal
05-16-2012, 12:02 PM
Well, sailors anchor out a lot, so PS tests a lot of anchoring gear. It's worthwhile reading, the fundamental principles still apply.

Glory
05-16-2012, 11:37 PM
Well, sailors anchor out a lot, so PS tests a lot of anchoring gear. It's worthwhile reading, the fundamental principles still apply.

Jim, I think the windage we have may create different results, the slippery low hull of a sailboat in any size is a great deal less than that of a MY or a SF. And even greater when the boat is riding back and forth in a wind and showing the more of a broad side exposure to the wind,

JM

fixin-to-cruise
06-06-2012, 01:46 PM
I had the same issue on my 65MY. Returned the bent 60 lb. anchor to Danforth by UPS (Tie-Down is the parent company) and they shipped me a new one under warranty. Swapped the 60 lb. plus the price difference for a 90 lb. Danforth that works great. The square crown pieces wedge into the Hatteras anchor platform and it doesn't move at all underway.

jim rosenthal
06-06-2012, 08:10 PM
It's worth taking a look at. It had to do with anchor rode loading etc- I agree the sail area of MYs far exceeds that of sailboats, but this test had new information to me. I like reading about anchoring and anchor technology.